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Old 05-04-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

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I not forgetting for a moment, and the answer is no, they are not.

They are not separate state/nations, they are part of a federal union called the United States of America, and they gave up the ability to naturalize at that union.

Can you/will you substantively PROVE, using the specific and precise words of the organic Constitution of 1781, each element of the above statement, both individually, and as a whole?

1. They are not separate state/nations

2. they are part of a federal union

3. they are part of a federal union called the United States of America,

4. they gave up the ability to naturalize

5. they gave up the ability to naturalize at that ["FEDERAL"] union

Are they separate states?

If so, how, why, and when, specifically and with provable particularity?

If not, how, why, and when, specifically and with provable particularity?

Are they guaranteed a "republican form of government?"

Is a state with a republican form of government a "republic?"

If not, how and why not?

What is a "republic?"

Is the term "States" in "the United States of America singular or plural?

Where, precisely, in "...this Constitution for the United States of America" are YOUR specified terms "federal union" to be found?

Can you/will you point to those precise and specific words?

If not, why not?

Can you/will you substantiate with proof positive your claim that "they gave up the ability to naturalize at that [specifically enumerated "federal] union?"


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If you bother to check, you will not find any state with a law about naturalization, since it is reserved solely to the Federal Govt, further, you will find that in each instance, the state requirement for “citizenship” requires US citizenship.

"If you bother to check;" would that be an expression of condescending arrogance, projecting a presumption of ignorance upon whomever it is that you are "responding to?"

Why, precisely, would you do that?

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"I not forgetting?"

Can you/will you clearly and precisely point to the specific, particular, and peculiar term "Federal Government" in "this Constitution for the United States of America?

If not, why not?

I do find mention of "the government of the United States of America;" can you/will you please substantiate with proof positive, from the organic Constitution itself, that the term "States" is, in fact a term grammatically indicated as being set in the singular?

Is the word "States" in "...this Constitution for the United States of America grammatically singular, plural, or both?

If both, can you/will you, from the document itself substantively provide proof positive, in each particular instance throughout the entire document?

Can you/will you substantiate with proof positive, that the term "States" in the specific phrase "do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America" is other than a term grammatically expressing the plural?

In the phrase "United States of America," what is the grammatical function of the phrase "of America?"


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More to the point, Article I, Section 8, clause 4 of the constitution gives specifically to the Federal Govt the power to: “establish a uniform rule of naturalization”, and Section 10 specifically forbids the states from “enter(ing) into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal” which specifically means they are not sovereign and independent with regards to other nations.

How, precisely, is this "[m]ore to the point?

Can you/will you show, using the words found in the Constitution itself, that indeed, "Article I, Section 8, clause 4 of the constitution gives specifically to the Federal Govt the power to: 'establish a uniform rule of naturalization'?"

How, precisely, and with specific particularity, is it other than that Article I "specifically" addresses "legislative Powers" vested in the Congress, rather than "gives" "specifically" these, or any part of these "Powers" (or any other "Power") to the seemingly elusive "Federal Government," as is your stated claim?

Can you/will you point to any specific terms "gives" "is given" in "...this Constitution for the United States of America," relating to any VESTED "Power(s)?"

What is the difference between specific terms and figures of speech, and why might one prefer the figure of speech to precise terms?

Are things similar the same?
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