[Ice]

If an oath to the constitution was taken then the constitution is not moot. That oath binds them to it. This is why we bring up the oath. But you go on believing that it is moot if you want to. Things are the way they are because people have not bothered to educate themselves and have not been responsible in the maintainance of their government. It is not difficult to hold our government accountable. Start with people in elected office... VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE.



What war? We are at war with our government? I thought we were wrestling with men that are attempting to steal the wealth from the people of this nation... by bribing elected officials. Our elected officials still see us as someone they need to convince to voter for them... so I doubt they consider us slaves. The impertinent ones that act outside of the bounds of authority granted to them must be held accountable... and that is one of the issues we need to discuss a bit more within this forum.

You think churches are immune to the bankers sweet talk? You should think about that a bit more.

Does government really recognize the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land? I think the elected officials do recognize the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land... even though some would like to do away with it.

If the IRS ignores the Constitution, would that explain the 1st ammendment success found at lawworks?



There are many more in jail due to redemption processes than there are for using the Law. I've also noticed that people using "redemption" arguments in court do not fair well. <font color=brown>"Innocent people are in jail because they did not follow the rules and procedures correctly. Did you not say this?" [/color] NO. I never said that innocent people were in jail because they did not follow rules and procedures correctly. I don't know why "innocent people" would be in jail. But, if you think you know of any, maybe we should get all their documents and court records and find out why they are in jail and see if we can get them out. Your second paragraph is loaded with statements that are nothing more than assumptions, personal "belief" or questions designed to lead to a point that really has no validity.



People are winning using the courts. You may think they do not see a Sovereign when you appear there ... but what do you believe you are? And therein lies the problem. If you continue to think that they view you as a "slave"... then you will behave as one when dragged before them. You will be so inhibited because of that ingrained mindset that behaving as a Sovereign will be a passing thought after the fact. And yes, they do recognize me as a Sovereign when I appear. If you want proof of claim then look at the videos and other material that we have provided and check out the successes using the courts. How do you know that all judges are at war with you? Don't you think there are judges that believe in the principles of the Constitution, have faith in god and appreciate being able to render judgment righteously? They are out there. ( I know of one that devotes his time to assisting seniors in his retirement.)



<font color=brown>"By the way I know the Constitution very well and that is not the law I am speaking of. "[/color]



Are you stating that you are not speaking of Natural Law?... you are not speaking of our Natural Rights (endowed upon us by our Creator)? That is the Law the Constitution is based on. That is the Law that the Constitution "guarantees and protects". Were you not speaking of "Gods" Law?



I am getting tired of constantly repeating the same points. These same points have not been successfully rebutted and claims are made but no proof offered to support them.



I am done with this discussion. I will no longer discuss "redemption vs. using the court" or any such thing. We have a long road ahead of us. Let us tend to business.



I wish you well.



Ice