
11-20-2006, 08:12 AM
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Banned User
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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David; hoarding gold
But from settled statutory construction it is clear that FDR only signed the executive order to be effective within the District ONLY as a military proscription.
And from other analysis here on the Forum, HJR-192 never had any force of law to apply to We the People living in the states of the union.
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11-20-2006, 08:48 AM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montana - near Missoula
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Money is an extension of speech operating as a special branch of language where by means of symbols and contracts, humans are able to exchange real things by proxy.
Human society as extended across the earth is actually a gift economy and money the recording instrument to whom reciprocal gifting is mandated.
The Gifting Economy: http://www.altruists.org/downloads/by_subject/money/
Functionally, money is a mnemonic device: http://minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf
The use of precious metals as instruments upon which to emboss monetary information is essentially an anti-counterfeiting measure.
Incorporating the Gesellian economic concept of a "carry charge" upon circulating currency leads to a situation where all money users pay a usage fee for maintenance of the system and where fees are only extracted from people who actually have money.
Goodfriend:
http://www.richmondfed.org/publicati...dfs/wp00-3.pdf Here is Goodfriend: http://ideas.repec.org/e/pgo19.html and: http://www.richmondfed.org/research/...goodfriend.cfm
Extracted Quote from the paper: " In the main body of the paper I propose three options which could allow a central bank to overcome the zero bound on interest rate policy: a carry tax on money, open market purchases in long bonds, and monetary transfers. The first half of the paper considers the mechanics of lowering the floor on nominal interest rates by imposing a storage (carry) tax on money. The second half explores the power of open market purchases and monetary transfers to stimulate the economy when nominal interest rates are at the zero (or lower) bound given by the cost of carry on money.
Following Fisher's insight, I recommend that a central bank put in place systems to raise the cost of storing money by imposing a carry tax on its monetary liabilities. If a cost of carry were imposed on money, then expansionary open market operations could make nominal interest rates negative."
Levi Philos
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11-20-2006, 10:41 AM
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Mental Jujitsu
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 717
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by idknow
But from settled statutory construction it is clear that FDR only signed the executive order to be effective within the District ONLY as a military proscription.
And from other analysis here on the Forum, HJR-192 never had any force of law to apply to We the People living in the states of the union.
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During the financial crisis of the depression, in 1933 substance of gold, silver and real money was removed as a foundation for our financial system. In its place the substance of the American citizenry: their real property, wealth, assets and productivity that belongs to them was in effect, ‘pledged’ by the government and placed at risk as the collateral for US debt, credit and currency for commerce to function
Senate Document No. 43, 73rd Congress 1st Session stated,
“Under the new law the money is issued to the banks in return for Government obligations, bills of exchange, drafts, notes, trade acceptances, and banker’s acceptances. The money will be worth 100 cents on the dollar, because it is backed by the credit of the nation. It will represent a mortgage on all the homes and other property of all the people in the nation. (Which lawfully belongs to these private citizens.)
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11-21-2006, 08:36 AM
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Banned User
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PANICPASS
During the financial crisis of the depression, in 1933 substance of gold, silver and real money was removed as a foundation for our financial system. In its place the substance of the American citizenry: their real property, wealth, assets and productivity that belongs to them was in effect, *pledged* by the government and placed at risk as the collateral for US debt, credit and currency for commerce to function
Senate Document No. 43, 73rd Congress 1st Session stated,
*Under the new law the money is issued to the banks in return for Government obligations, bills of exchange, drafts, notes, trade acceptances, and banker*s acceptances. The money will be worth 100 cents on the dollar, because it is backed by the credit of the nation. It will represent a mortgage on all the homes and other property of all the people in the nation. (Which lawfully belongs to these private citizens.)
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No, your opening sentence is incomplete:
Quote:
silver and real money was removed
(only from the govt and its employees)
as a foundation
(the govt's ability to pay off their debts)
for our financial system.
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The system exists as a result of private activity, not because of the Govt.
Also remember that prior to govt denying itself the use of gold and (later) silver
it could ONLY pay (off) debts with metal-based money.
Now it can use unbacked negotiable paper!!!
Someone must have sighed a breath of relief coming up with this solution.
HJR-192 relieves us of property but in exchange
as one of the Member's taglines says, "it's all for free" now.
Finally, your last paragraph;
that only happens when a private citizen does know the truth of what's going on.
as it is written we are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.
Let us continue to learn that we can teach others.
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12-24-2006, 05:08 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montana - near Missoula
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Eric Williams on First Amendment Radio right now
If you catch it; look at the time of this post, there is about 55 minutes left today, Dec 24
Or buy the archive
http://wwfar.com/listen.html
Info about the show and the archives:
http://libertyforum.info/
http://wwfar.com/archives2.html
Last edited by Levi Philos : 12-24-2006 at 05:34 PM.
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12-24-2006, 05:23 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montana - near Missoula
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Multiple Formats for Money
Both John Bryant and Eric Williams make the same fundamental presumption without ever either voicing that presumption.
The presumption is that money is some kind of natural monopoly and that only one format can really serve all of the people.
Using my definition for money: "Money is an extension of speech that is actually a special branch of language where by means of symbols and contracts people are able to exchange real things by proxy," you can quickly grasp that there exists a plethora of items of several types that can serve quite well as money.
The natural monopoly presumption itself traps the believer into an enclosed box, and unless that presumption is refuted all exits from the box are closed.
Please notice that I have not said people cannot offer a silver coin or a gold coin in trade; what I say is that a promise to deliver a thousand bushels of corn next week - or next month - where this promise is itself transferable and the delivery is made to the bearer (of the written promise/contract) - then this is also a form of money.
In fact, if you observe with an open mind the various forms of symbols in trade already, it will become obvious that many monetary formats are already circulating.
Levi Philos
Last edited by Levi Philos : 12-24-2006 at 05:59 PM.
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12-25-2006, 12:49 PM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 223
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I've read something like this B4
It's really pretty straight forward as to the definition of the "national debt". The US Corporation wants to borrow a $100,000,000.00, the Federal Reserve then says we will loan you the money at say, 10%. So, what has to be paid back is $110,000,000.00. Lets say this loan was taken out on Jan 1 and had to be repaid by Dec 31. The Feds send a request to the Dept. of Treasury to print up $100,000,000.00 in Treasury Bonds to use as collateral against the loan. The bonds are sold to the general public at an interest rate determined by the FEDS. The Federal Reserve Notes are then printed in the amount equal to the loan and the bonds. The public belonging to the US Corporation is the collateral as well as the human resource for repaying this loan. Of course, there's no way to feasibly pay the $110,000,000.00 back when only $100,000,000.00 was printed and put into circulation. This excess in which can not be repaid by Dec 31 is considered now part of the "national debt". This happens all the time and over the years it builds and builds. Over a period of time this causes recessions and inflation. A slow down in economic activity and declining employment will cause a depression and when there's an increase in the economic activity and employment rises we have an inflation due to more money in circulation than goods and services being produced. It's all bookkeeping entries. Federal Reserve Notes cost about 4 cents to print and they are backed by the full faith that people will be able to buy the goods and services they desire. As to intrinsic value? 0. No gold or silver backing them.
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12-26-2006, 08:15 AM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montana - near Missoula
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Some answers from Dr Popp and EC Riegel
Some of what I have learned came from reading the two Dr Popp books. They are short - about 100 pages or less in paperback format - and are now digitized and online free.
* Money: Bona Fide or Non-Bona Fide - (E-Book) Dr. Edward E. Popp 1970 685k pdf
http://www.appropriate-economics.org/materials/Popp.pdf
* The Great Cookie Jar - (E-book) Dr. Edward E. Popp 1978 829k pdf
http://www.appropriate-economics.org...pCookieJar.pdf
(Dr Popp died about ten years ago)
http://www.complementarycurrency.org/materials.php (253 documents in total)
Other significant things came from Thomas Greco and the Riegel books: http://www.reinventingmoney.com/
Riegel Documents: http://www.reinventingmoney.com/riegel.php
Of the four documents listed there; I digitized the first three on the behalf of Thomas Greco.
I have also digitized several alternate economics books still under copyright protection and am currently working on digitizing a book on Scottish banking from 1800 to 1860. This book was published in England in 1864 where one copy found its way to Germany. It was scanned from cover to back and the images burned to CD disks. I have one copy of the burned images and am converting the images to digital format.
The 1833 William Gouge report to president Andrew "Stonewall" Jackson is also something I recently digitized from image files: http://www.complementarycurrency.org...eport_1833.htm and also available in pdf format.
I also consider the book by Merrill Jenkins, MONEY, THE GREATEST HOAX ON EARTH, to be fairly important.
Sincerely, Levi Philos
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12-26-2006, 08:21 AM
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Practice Makes Perfect
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Location: Montana - near Missoula
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Hypothecation of the Promissory Note
Hypothecation of Debts
(you might do a search for the term hypothecate)
The organization of debt into currency; the word "seigniorage" has been highlighted to help you zero in on that concept.
http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...e#post 396797
Here is how a home loan is created. There are a series of steps in an exact sequence. (1) A promissory note is written and signed by the so-called "borrower." (2) The promissory note is entered into the bank records as an asset of the bank. (3) The title to the home is conveyed into a trust that is managed by the bank. (4) A "loan" is made by the bank from the assets of the bank.
You can see here that the bank is not lying. They do make loans from assets on their books. What they are not telling you is that you created the new money when you signed the promissory note. That note is the asset upon which the so-called "loan" is drawn upon.
This process of hypothecating a debt is the process by which new money is created. The bank does not create the new money; the so-called "borrower" creates the new money with the promissory note. It is an agency relationship, but the agency is never really defined nor are the responsibilities and duties of the agent ever spelled out.
In the "What's Your Story?" thread: http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...ad.php?t=26884 read post #29 carefully, then go on to read posts 32 and 36 where the word "seigniorage is again hightlighted.
http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...=seigniorag e
In this thread titled "Why do we have Taxation?" http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...ad.php?t=39341 read posts 15, 16, 18, 20, and 21
The value of the paper is inducted from the people who do the work, but that inducted value is claimed by the government and by the banks. This improper bookkeeping is why the debts become unpayable and the discovery and exposure of this improper bookkeeping is the heart of the redemption movement.
Levi Philos
Last edited by Levi Philos : 12-26-2006 at 08:23 AM.
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12-26-2006, 12:25 PM
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Come and Get Some!
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado.
Posts: 6,274
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Exciting stuff Levi;
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/sui...te-check_1.jpg
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/sui...te-check_2.jpg
Here is a copy of the PAY TO THE ORDER OF where the bank cashed the note to create the lent funds. This is the reason the bank will never bring the original note or even an affidavit of loss or theft about it, to the foreclosure hearing, even when it is consistently required by statute. - And the clerk presiding over the hearing will only make the bank promise to bring it to some unscheduled hearing in the future - at best.
Regards,
David Merrill.
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