Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar - Page 2

mandalisj · #11 01-01-2008, 09:58 PM

the liberty dollar people tried to get you to pay $10 for an ounce of silver when silver was less than $7 ... when silver rallied over $10 they changed the face value to $20 ... i think they are crooks ...

they would not be going to jail if they had not called them 'liberty dollars' and had just called them 'liberties' ... by calling them 'dollars' they were implying that they were a legal tender in the United States which they were not ... if the United States didn't mint them, how could they accept them as dollars when the silver content is not known? just because the liberty dollar people say it contains a certain amount of silver, does not mean the United States has to accept them for value ...

Credit Suisse and Johnson Mathey do not put 'dollars' on their precious metals for this reason ... if the liberty dollar people had not tried to sell their coins for more than their market value as dollars then they would not be going to prison ... they are for profit pay-triot$ that use people's prejudice against the corrupt government to make money ... didn't they accept Federal Reserve notes? now look how they have their hands out ...

i tried to call them a couple of years ago and explain why they were going to eventually get arrested but they didn't want to listen ...

ezrhythm · #12 01-02-2008, 03:20 AM

The LD's may be considered a scam but their pricing doesn't make them crooks. No one was forced to buy them.

They accepted Fraudulent Reserve Notes- Of course, how else were people going to obtain them?

Where does it say that it's illegal to mark your own coins with "Dollar"? That is not what the code reads.
It has been confirmed that selling/distributing their coins wasn't illegal. The government had to come up with excuses of money laundering in order to get the warrant for seizure.

Where did you hear that someone is for sure, going to jail? I haven't seen any news of this, only confiscation.

Although I wouldn't obtain LD's because of their inflated price, that's up to the purchaser and apparently many felt it was a good buy. It has helped people to become aware about what real money is and of what is occuring in our country.

ezrhythm · #13 01-02-2008, 05:47 AM

Now the LD site has added a new product/coin;
http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/information/2008ld.htm

Jerry Pitts · #14 01-02-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezrhythm

Where does it say that it's illegal to mark your own coins with "Dollar"? That is not what the code reads.It has been confirmed that selling/distributing their coins wasn't illegal. The government had to come up with excuses of money laundering in order to get the warrant for seizure.

Does not the symbol "$" bear the meaning of 'dollar'. Even some checks stipulate under the line for the numerical amount of the check "dollars" and "cents". Would it be not in harmony with this discussion to suggest that even a product sitting on the shelf with a "$" on it, is suggesting that the product is the equivalent of xxx# of 'dollars'. It would be the same concept as posting a numeral on a piece of paper and calling it a 'dollar/$'.

EZ. You might also want to remember that a lot of folk want to clamor in regard to the Constitutional statement regarding that 'states' are prohibited from coining their own money. Well it appears to me, that I am not a 'state' and neither is the folk who made the 'liberty dollar', therefore, where is the lawful restriction on placing a symbology on a private product which is not property of the state?

Jerry

Extramural · #15 01-02-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts

Does not the symbol "$" bear the meaning of 'dollar'.

This depends on whether or not there is an admission to such.

Jerry Pitts · #16 01-02-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extramural

This depends on whether or not there is an admission to such.

By the customs and usage clause that is so predominate in the courts, many things have been made a matter of judicial 'law' merely upon the 'custom and usage' of such thing. The 'admission' you speak of, could be reached through another tool of the judiciary, called the 'presumption'. If something is customarily used for a long period of time, and there are no recorded rebuttals to the customary use, then the judiciary automatically 'presumes' that you have acquiesced to the 'custom and usage', thereby initiating an 'admission' to your agreement.

Jerry

Jerry Pitts · #17 01-02-2008, 08:57 AM

Here is an interesting study on 'custom and usage' as applied to insurance and reinsurance (another set of terms relating to 'bonds' which are paid for with $). It has some very interesting material within it.

Jerry

ss_stealth · #18 01-02-2008, 10:28 AM

A friend of mine bought a LD when they were going for $20(FRNs). For Christmas I bought him a US minted 10z. Silver Dollar. I paid $20 for it at a pawn shop. Spot was $14.20 the day before I made the purchase. I don't know what the mint sells the silver dollars for but I'd assume they'd be around the $25 that the same shop was selling "mint" condition silver dollars. If the US mint can sell $14.20 worth of silver for $20+ why can't LD?

Also, there are many "dollars" from all over the world. Here in Maine I see Canadian money all the time. I've accepted Canadian DOLLARS (CAD) at work recently when the exchange rate was about even.

I don't have a clear memory of what my friend's Liberty "Dollar" looked like but I don't recall it claiming to be a United States Dollar (USD). If the US Government brings the LD guys to court on the premise of fraud or whatever wouldn't they have to prove their claim that these coins were minted with the INTENT to be passed off as "official" US coinage?

The whole thing stinks.

I haven't even heard of any charges being brought upon the LD people. On what grounds did they seize the silver?

Jerry Pitts · #19 01-02-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss_stealth

I haven't even heard of any charges being brought upon the LD people. On what grounds did they seize the silver?

Though you will probably never see or hear of any federal agent admitting this, the most likely reason, charge (if it were listed officially) would be 'interfering with commerce'. Remember, the precious metals of this country are regulated, and as such, are required to be used for specific purposes and none other.

See here: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...23_main_02.tpl

Jerry

rentiap · #20 01-02-2008, 11:27 AM

I thought this link would be pertinent to this discussion.
The dollar sign when I tried to post it to this post would not be allowed.
Hmmm I wonder why?
I actually remember when I was in grade school being taught that this was the proper way of denoting a true dollar sign.
But this knowledge seems to have been lost or changed in the last 25-30 years.

http://autarchic.tripod.com/files/dollarsign.html