Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar

[Jerry Pitts]

Thank you for that thoughtful attempt at humor for the day. It is ironic however, that you do possess the intelligence that would allow you to make a success with the barter system.

Though your other 'speculation' regarding the final result of a barter system being the take over "by a money changer and bankster..", in my opinion is a little bit misguided. Misguided perhaps by the illusion that presently confronts you. The illusion of comfort, air conditioning, a comfortable ride in a 25k to 85k vehicle, a tv for in home entertainment, all the beer or other ale that you could possibly purchase, oh and don't forget the fabulous imitative re-enactment of the gladiator sports. Under a barter system, people would actually have to WORK in order to survive. It would no longer be a matter of pressing buttons on a computer such as what we are doing right here. You are probably right though. Most people would never dream of giving up all those niceties of life for the possibility of actual labor. Most people don't even know how to raise a garden, or when and how to collect the eggs from a chicken. Oh my goodness! most of them would proclaim when they discovered that the gallon of milk actually came from a bovine creature that stomps through feces all day long, and don't mind eating grass that is covered with the same substance. Most people would not realize that all the necessary ingredients for survival are at their fingertips. Such as medications. Where do the pharmaceutical companies get their medications? 95% of those medications are derived from 'Plants'! You need a pain reliever... go get some nightshade.. OH no.. that is poison... so is chlorine. However, chlorine or belladonna (nightshade) have beneficial effects if taken in proper dosages.

Face, it. Men and women of today are so caught up in the luxuries of this fiat dollar system, that if the system did collapse, you would see rioting in the streets, especially in the metropolitan areas, where there is no room left to grow a garden or raise a herd of cattle or even chickens. People would be killing one another for a morsel of bread. Oh your hammer is damaged.. Fix it. don't throw it away, as there is no where you can use those FRNs' to make a purchase.

Get the point.

Jerry

Originally Posted by blu3duk

I know in the deep recesses of my mind you got to be joking when you typed that, for how would a politicial survive? or a liar... I mean lawmucker, er lawyer.... my gosh would you pay a fine to the judges retirement fund in chickens or eggs to hatch???

Great gobs of gopher guts man, how could we trade my bag of beans for your hammer? my beans are worth more than a measly little hammer! or my cow for your hammer might not be a fair trade to me even if i needed the hammer I could have just traded you milk for it i suppose but thenm i have labor involved in getting the milk too, and the hammer is still not quite the same..... so what else you got? any ....... trinkets that can be shared with others? coins?...... or certificates..... maybe we can have someone hold them in a safe for us and they could watch over them for a fee.....

yep barter it is.... whcih leads to eventual coruptive takeover by a money changer and bankster.....

okokokokko my attempt at humor for the day has ben made. back to the regular de-programing now....read read read.... apply as needed.

William
Central Idaho

[blu3duk]

I know folks who barter continually and have no problem with it, they still trade in "fraud" for some things like the lectric company and such, but they even bartered all 3 of their kids, built a house by barter and more.... just not as fast as go to the bankster and get credit into an account and buy it now pay for it forever......

I trade or barter when i can, with a few folks, and as long as we come to an agreement of fair trade it works, most folk want more for used goods than some things cost when new and we cant make the deal [but i still do commerce with the wreckin yard owner anyway].

Ive been down on my luck it seems so long that everything i have is old and either in need of repair or replaced, and the new crap to replace it with is sometimes in worse shape than my old beat up broken item..... so I haunt the pawn shops and the second hand stores and try to find usable tools for the task at hand, and i hope that this 6 year old computer will hold out another year or two before it becomes so outmoded that i cant fix it up any longer....

Mostly i possess what i believe to be a small amount of knowledge whichmay or may not be enough to get me and my family out of the current situation in the supreme Court of Idaho state, and it wont be by barter it will be mostly by the typing skills that have came long by need and the research ive been able to get done using this old machine..... I am fortunate enough that my wife has been able to trade labor enough to keep us afloat barely the past couple years, though the stress of it all has been a contributating factor in her ill health recently..... so I am gonna have to pull something out of my hat and do a little more commerce myself.

William
Central Idaho

[Jerry Pitts]

William, the man, flesh and blood creation of God, occupying a space in Central Idaho. I can empathize with your situation, as my is likened unto that of yours, with the exception of the struggle with the court system.

I will pray that God will send an angel your way that will bless you and yours and give you the assistance needed to overcome the wiles of the devil that are plaguing you. God promised, as one item, to make us prosperous ,, but along with that prosperity, comes the obligation of devotion to God.

Jerry

Originally Posted by blu3duk

I know folks who barter continually and have no problem with it, they still trade in "fraud" for some things like the lectric company and such, but they even bartered all 3 of their kids, built a house by barter and more.... just not as fast as go to the bankster and get credit into an account and buy it now pay for it forever......

I trade or barter when i can, with a few folks, and as long as we come to an agreement of fair trade it works, most folk want more for used goods than some things cost when new and we cant make the deal [but i still do commerce with the wreckin yard owner anyway].

Ive been down on my luck it seems so long that everything i have is old and either in need of repair or replaced, and the new crap to replace it with is sometimes in worse shape than my old beat up broken item..... so I haunt the pawn shops and the second hand stores and try to find usable tools for the task at hand, and i hope that this 6 year old computer will hold out another year or two before it becomes so outmoded that i cant fix it up any longer....

Mostly i possess what i believe to be a small amount of knowledge whichmay or may not be enough to get me and my family out of the current situation in the supreme Court of Idaho state, and it wont be by barter it will be mostly by the typing skills that have came long by need and the research ive been able to get done using this old machine..... I am fortunate enough that my wife has been able to trade labor enough to keep us afloat barely the past couple years, though the stress of it all has been a contributating factor in her ill health recently..... so I am gonna have to pull something out of my hat and do a little more commerce myself.

William
Central Idaho

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Shoonra:

recalibrating dollar amounts according to the fluctuating exchange in gold

Thats the point right there- a troy ounce of gold is legally, nominally worth $50. So the reverse is equally true, $50 has a legal value of a troy ounce of gold. And the courts are supposedly bound by a uniform legality, the same one that nominates these prices.

So the question of valuable consideration brings up - for how much value did I get credit? Any creditor (read: bank) must tell me how much I owe in gold or silver, it is my right to pay debts at law. How many ounces of gold can I buy with their reserve credits? 'Cuz thats the consideration I received. Now I get to use the law and pay that back, with debased currency just like in Merrie Olde England, at $50 lawful u.s. money per gold troy ounce due, the reserve system being bound to the same law that creates it in the first place, they have to honor the legal, nominal par value. And they can't take gold or silver in payment.

Like you have been saying, federal reserve credits
ARE LAWFUL MONEY...

[Shoonra]

The "official" exchange rate for gold (42 and 2/9 dollars per ounce) is given in 31 USC sec 5117, as revised in 1984; the rate (approx $42.23) was the legal standard as of Oct. 19, 1976, the previous time that provision was revised. The whole section has its origins in 1934 legislation. The section says that the Federal Reserve System will not keep gold, but turn it over to the US Treasury in exchange for this $42.23 per ounce.

Quite frankly, that wasn't even close to the market rate in 1976 and is something like 1/20 of today's market rate; but it approaches the rate of 1934. At that time, the Federal Reserve transferred all its gold to the Treasury, and - especially considering the absurdity of the statutory rate - hasn't accumulated any gold since then. The purpose of the exchange rate was, apparently, to go off the gold standard, at least for domestic banking purposes.

All right, so the official rate has been unchanged for at least 32 years. So trying to recalibrate dollars in terms of gold would not work any changes, unless you were trying to compare dollar amounts from times when the official exchange rate was something different (which, in our lives, is unlikely).

On the other hand, if you were trying to recalibrate the dollar according the market value of gold, and you were the debtor, it would almost always be to your disadvantage. If, say, you borrowed $100 (in FRNs) a year ago and were supposed to pay it back now, recalibrating would - to be fair - require figuring out how much gold a $100 (in FRNs) could buy on the day it was lent to you, and then figuring out how much that same amount of gold would cost today in FRNs, and paying that amount of money in FRNs. Since the price of gold is almost always rising, you'd be at a very serious disadvantage.

And one of the curiosities is that, if you tried to recalibrate dollar amounts in silver, instead of gold, for the very same loan, you'd get different numbers. The price of silver, also almost always rising, rises at a different rate than that of gold.

But not always rising. For example, about 120 years ago, the price of aluminum was even higher per ounce than gold, because a very complicated process was needed to produce aluminum. Aluminum, however, is harder metal than gold, one reason that the Washington Monument is capped with aluminum despite its enormous price at the time. But about 110 years ago a new process was developed that would produce aluminum very cheaply indeed. If you had been using an aluminum standard instead of a gold standard back then, you might have lent out a considerable amount in paper money, on the calculation that all that paper could buy only one ounce of aluminum, but only a few years later get payment in a tiny amount of paper money, the new price of an ounce of aluminum.