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Old 12-14-2007, 08:21 AM
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Rlynne Rlynne is offline
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Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar

I am shocked to inform you that we have learned that the FBI is moving aggressively to forfeit "their" seizure for auction immediately!

If that does not shock and alarm you, you are truly asleep! If there has ever been a time to support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation… it is now!

Due to higher than anticipated demand for the Arrest Dollar, a printable order from as been created to simplify the process. It is available HERE.

This is so shocking that it makes one wonder what is going on. Unfortunately, the draconian raid/seizure/forfeiture by this government is SOP - Standard Operating Procedures! In fact, the more you learn, the worse it is. Once raided, the victim need not be arrested or even charged with a crime before his/her property can be forfeited and auctioned. This is so common that the police often refer to the seized property as "their" property. After all, like any common thief, they stole it… its "theirs"! Or so they would have you think!

Wait! It is not quite that simple with the Liberty Dollar. You see, I considered this dirty, stinking government trick when I designed and developed the Warehouse Receipt (WR) program. And although I didn't think they would really be this bad or simply ignorant… there is no doubt now. For that reason I am not the signatory on the Warehouse Receipt. Nor could I sign the WR because I am not the Warehouse Official. I don't even work for the warehouse. Remember the warehouse is totally independent and the official issuer of the warehouse receipt. NORFED, Liberty Services, myself, everybody who uses them are simply distributors of the receipts.

But the worst news is "economic persecution". Now we have to fight for your property… with nothing because they took everything in the raid. If we hadn't received some donations to get a new computer, we wouldn't even be able to send out this cry for help. This is very serious!

The Search/Seizure Warrants were for property at specific addresses. The property they seized at Sunshine backed the legal, signed Warehouse Receipts. That property was, and still is, owned by the bearers of the warehouse receipts and the digital Liberty Dollar holders. That is your property that they are trying to steal!

So in all fairness, I don't think Agent Andy and the FBI who raided the warehouse at Sunshine Mint know what they are doing. Yes, they can certainly be more damaging than a village idiot, but they may not know much more. It is obvious that they don't understand how a warehouse receipt program works. Except for my personal account at Sunshine, none of the confiscated material at Sunshine Mint was my property. It was YOURS!

Now! Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!


You did nothing illegal! You heard about the new "inflation proof" currency and decided to check it out on line at http://www.libertydollar.org/. You did your own "due diligence". You read quotes by the government that the Liberty Dollar was legal and that it was not counterfeit. Many of you even called the Fulfillment Office to check out the new currency. Then you made an informed decision to exchange some of your depreciating US dollars for some appreciating gold and silver based Liberty Dollars in specie, paper warehouse receipts and digital form.

Owning gold and silver in any form is not illegal! Over 500,000 individual legal binding warehouse receipts have been issued over the past ten years. Over 25,000+ individuals have visited our site and gotten Liberty Dollars. Neither you nor I are guilty.

Nor did you violate Title 18, Section 486 either. Even US Mint Director Edmond C. Moy acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper warehouse receipts were not illegal. Section 486 only concerns "use" in metal form. You were not even using the gold and silver. Your property, your metal was stored in the warehouse. You are not guilty. You are a victim!

The gold and silver seized from the issuing warehouse was not the property of the Liberty Services, Liberty Dollar, myself, or even the warehouse... it remains the property of the bearer warehouse receipt holders. It is YOUR property. To date 3,086 people have signed up to be a party to the Lawsuit and GET THEIR PROPERTY BACK.

I ask again: Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!

As bad as all that is, the precious metals industry should be very concerned because if the government can confiscate our gold and silver, they can confiscate theirs. Any raid and liquidation of a private, independent gold and silver warehouse sets an extremely dangerous precedent by this damn government. Where is ICTA - Industry Council for Tangible Assets when we need them?

Now hear this! The government is moving aggressively right now to steal your property!! Please join the Lawsuit to recover the wrongful seizure of your property. If you have not signed up for the Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit (Class Action Lawsuit) do it NOW. It is the only way to get your property back. Please take action immediately!

Clarification on the Class Action Lawsuit. We have referred to the lawsuit to recover the wrongfully seized property of the Warehouse Receipts and the digital Liberty Dollar holders, as a Class Action Lawsuit. But as we already have 3111 names of the injured parties, this is not a class action lawsuit. We plan to list everybody by name on the lawsuit. We want the judge to see how many people the US government has injured. It is important for the judge to know that thousands of good people from all over the United States, who committed no crime, have been injured and need immediate restitution. We have now renamed the lawsuit to Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit.

Please read the affidavit to establish "Probable Cause" for the Search and Seizure Warrants and ask yourself, "Where is the crime? When did it happen? Where? Who is the injured party?" http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/p...yaffidavit.pdf

In Alert #4 I mentioned The Soviet-Style Attack on NORFED by Jacob Hornberger. This excellent commentary is available at: http://www.fff.org/comment/com0711j.asp

Another excellent commentary, Gestapo raid on coin-producing enterprise by Dr. Richard H. Timberlake, noted monetary economist and expert on the Fed, has been posted at: http://www.libertydollar.org/comment...1196838996.pdf.

Dozens of great commentaries are available on the Comment Page at: http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/lega...commentary.htm

Thank you for the compliments on getting the digital eLibertyDollar up and running. Please send your digital donations to: Donation@LibertyDollar.org .

While we accept digital Liberty Dollar for donation, it is those damn non-Federal non-Reserve IOU Notes that are needed for the legal defense. Physical Liberty Dollars in paper and digital form that we can auction on eBay for more depreciating FRNs would be greatly appreciated too.

We continue to have a problem getting a bank account open. For now, please send all checks and money orders simply made out to BERNARD.

BIG Thanks for your donations. I apologize that I simply do not have time to respond to all the letters and good wishes. But please keep including the letters. It is good to know you are aware that we are fighting for you and your property. You did nothing wrong!

Orders for Arrest Dollars are very appreciated too. A newly created order from is available HERE. Remember they will only be available until I am arrested. So if you want a specially hallmarked Arrest Dollar… please send order now. I have no idea when I will be arrested.

Now as we face the greatest monetary challenge since the Revolutionary War, lets work together to create a free and independent currency that provides us with "just weights and measures". We should not be ripped off by the government money!

Please support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation. Sign up for the Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit today! Please don't let the government steal your money and drive the Liberty Dollar out of business.

BIG thanks for all the prayers, letters and donations we have received!!!

Every donation counts! Thank you!!

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:50 PM
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Extramural Extramural is offline
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Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but...

[NO DISRESPECT TO RLYNNE, who probably meant well posting the above information.]

Anyone minting that much gold and silver, and not having it protected with force of arms, is frankly quite stupid.

Bernard Von Nothaus needed triple redundancy asset protection, and hired guns to protect that gold and silver.

The way I see it, he allowed it to be taken.

The post by RLynne makes it obvious that they (NORFED) knew it was "your" (the customer's) property.

I'd say that the customers have a breach of fiduciary duty and breach of trust lawsuit, if they are smart enough to write it up...

The admissions have already been made. Should be a slam-dunk.


***********************

Let's look at this in the alternative. Persons put their "paper" currency in control of a bank. The bank has the force of arms (both state/local and Federal) to protect those credits.

Why would someone wanting gold or silver (specifically printed as an "replacement" to FRN's) order from a business that does not have at least the same protection level as a bank?

DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about ordering already minted or assayed gold/silver from a reputable dealer. I am speaking of trying to obtain a FRN replacement (Purportedly admitted by NORFED) from a business that has no protection for that overvalued (face value, at least) substitute, which, by it's very nature is compromised by threat of the beast/bankers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard VonNothaus


Now we have to fight for your property… with nothing because they took everything in the raid.

That property was, and still is, owned by the bearers of the warehouse receipts and the digital Liberty Dollar holders. That is your property that they are trying to steal!

Except for my personal account at Sunshine, none of the confiscated material at Sunshine Mint was my property. It was YOURS!

Now! Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!

Your property, your metal was stored in the warehouse. You are not guilty. You are a victim!

I ask again: Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!


If you have not signed up for the Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit (Class Action Lawsuit) do it NOW. It is the only way to get your property back. Please take action immediately!


But please keep including the letters. It is good to know you are aware that we are fighting for you and your property.

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor


[SARCASM ON] Sure, give them some more FRN's. See if that helps... (My opinion would be that it would be a "stupid tax" paid directly to BERNARD.)

Yep, there needs to be a class action, but not against the government agents. BVN just admitted multiple times that he knows the property is not his. Why then, did he not properly excercise responsible fiduciary duty, and protect that property?

I agree: Take Action Immediately! Sue the future away from BVN and/or NORFED.
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Last edited by Extramural : 12-15-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2007, 05:11 PM
ezrhythm ezrhythm is offline
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In addition to the facts above;

He says, without the donations he didn't have enough money to buy a computer?!!!

Something smells aweful here and now I no longer trust what he says.
(Not that I completely did in the first place.)
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Last edited by ezrhythm : 12-14-2007 at 05:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2007, 06:05 PM
Shoonra Shoonra is offline
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The talk about needing private guns is pointless (and downright dangerous) when the Feds show up with a search warrant.

However, it seems Very Suspicious that Von NotHaus now claims to be (1) utterly helpless and friendless so that everything depends on people throwing money at him, and (2) without any legal options when, in fact, Norfed claimed years ago to have a regular lawyer (I checked up on him; a Hawaiian lawyer who has been in trouble with the bar ethics committee).
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2007, 06:34 PM
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palani palani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
The talk about needing private guns is pointless (and downright dangerous) when the Feds show up with a search warrant.


Proposed State Amendment
Quote:
Originally Posted by state constitution
ARTICLE I.
BILL OF RIGHTS.

Rights of persons. SECTION 1. All men and women are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inalienable rights--among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; HOWEVER, IN NO SENSE IS PROTECTING PROPERTY INTENDED TO APPLY WHEN THE FEDS SHOW UP WITH A SEARCH WARRANT.

Think it will fly?
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:10 PM
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Extramural Extramural is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
The talk about needing private guns is pointless (and downright dangerous) when the Feds show up with a search warrant.


Duh. I never said it was safe, but pointless?

We both know different.


Guns, by their very design cannot be pointless, as they have to be pointed at an intended target (and/or engage that target) to have the desired effect. [I had to play on your word, sorry Bernie.]

Re your comment of dangerous: All resistance to tyranny is dangerous. The weak and/or afriad should be advised to avoid resistance at all costs, and comply, because it will make them "safer." [cough]

How'd I do, Bernie? Can I pass the Bar now?
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Last edited by Extramural : 12-15-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:30 PM
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Extramural Extramural is offline
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Palani: ROFLMAO!!!!

Good one.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:52 PM
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mrg mrg is offline
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A lot of times the "FEDS," (and other heavily armed foreign corporate municipal mercenary troops) show up with only part(s) of a "search warrant."

You maybe better "include" that likelihood also into the proposal.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:49 PM
yahoo yahoo is offline
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question for mrg

Please forward to mrg ASAP. I have to be at court in the morning. I could not send mrg a message; that site page is refusing my Log In. Thanks for any help.
In November 2005, mrg sent a message on this forum entitled, "Postal Power". This is from that doc:
"Using the autographed stamp that you rubber-stamp with your seal (bullet stamp) on the back side of your court documents is evidence that you possess the cancelled obligation on the civil side."
QUESTION: what is the design or text of this "seal"?
what is a "bullet stamp", and what is its design/text?
what is an "autographed stamp"?
how does one rubber-stamp an autographed stamp with a seal??? Please clarify, as it looks valuable, but I don't understand the statement.

I want to use signed postal stamps and invoke the UPU for my parking ticket.
Thanks.

Last edited by yahoo : 01-01-2008 at 08:53 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-01-2008, 08:56 PM
yahoo yahoo is offline
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question for mrg

Please forward to mrg ASAP. I have to be at court in the morning. I could not send mrg a message; that site page is refusing my Log In. Thanks for any help.
In November 2005, mrg sent a message on this forum entitled, "Postal Power". This is from that doc:
"Using the autographed stamp that you rubber-stamp with your seal (bullet stamp) on the back side of your court documents is evidence that you possess the cancelled obligation on the civil side."
QUESTION: what is the design or text of this "seal"?
what is a "bullet stamp", and what is its design/text?
what is an "autographed stamp"?
how does one rubber-stamp an autographed stamp with a seal??? Please clarify, as it looks valuable, but I don't understand the statement.

I want to use signed postal stamps and invoke the UPU for my parking ticket.
Thanks.
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