Constitution; Just a piece of paper?

[kokomoj0]

Here is the section 14 of the Wisconsin Constitution: Sec. 14. All lands within the state are declared to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer term than fifteen years in which rent or service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of land, hereafter made, are declared to be void.


The question is; why do we pay land and building taxes in Wisconsin when it says right in the constitution that all lands are allodial?

[International American]

Originally Posted by kokomoj0

Here is the section 14 of the Wisconsin Constitution: Sec. 14. All lands within the state are declared to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer term than fifteen years in which rent or service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of land, hereafter made, are declared to be void.


The question is; why do we pay land and building taxes in Wisconsin when it says right in the constitution that all lands are allodial?

Then who really owns the land? The gov. of Wisconsin or the people? And why are people being forced to pay this absurd "property" tax?

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

No one is "forced to pay" any tax, they are all indirect- and the property one is not personal, its just a lien on the parcel. Pay it or dont: the only consequence is that the lien grows. And...in some states, after enough years have passed, there could be an auction of the lot.

But not in Texas...

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/taxati...tml#post130504



The functional ability to charge this tax is based on registration. Properties that are not registered are not taxed- there is no such thing as "random taxation", a "decree from on high".

Also there are exemptions that may be claimed even for otherwise taxable property.

At some point, people enrolled their properties in this tax lien system and the question now is how to get the property out.

(think it's called the "torrens lien system", after a 'james torrens' in maybe australia)

Its not a Constitutional or political question. Thi is why the "libertarian ideology" is actually a masonic dead-end: it's based on a false premise of "things just magically happen", so people waste time trying to change them, magically, through voting-spells and whatnot.

Its like complaining about high prices at one supermarket yet continuing to shop there. (kvetching... oy vey!)

[kokomoj0]

If that is the case does anyone know how I can start digging into this? I never agreed to any lien on my property so it had to be done with previous owners? Of course knowing the right questions to ask is 99% of the battle!

[International American]

Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham

No one is "forced to pay" any tax, they are all indirect- and the property one is not personal, its just a lien on the parcel. Pay it or dont: the only consequence is that the lien grows. And...in some states, after enough years have passed, there could be an auction of the lot.

But not in Texas...

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/taxati...tml#post130504



The functional ability to charge this tax is based on registration. Properties that are not registered are not taxed- there is no such thing as "random taxation", a "decree from on high".

Also there are exemptions that may be claimed even for otherwise taxable property.

At some point, people enrolled their properties in this tax lien system and the question now is how to get the property out.

(think it's called the "torrens lien system", after a 'james torrens' in maybe australia)

Its not a Constitutional or political question. Thi is why the "libertarian ideology" is actually a masonic dead-end: it's based on a false premise of "things just magically happen", so people waste time trying to change them, magically, through voting-spells and whatnot.

Its like complaining about high prices at one supermarket yet continuing to shop there. (kvetching... oy vey!)

When I said "forced", I was using the word in a loose sense. Sure, u don't have to pay but after a while u will end up on a park bench!

Also, when it comes to the supermarket, I can choose to go somewhere else but most Americans can't choose not to pay the property tax.

On a slightly unrelated point, the people on this forum need to stop using the English language in such a legalistic manner as most Americans simply don't know what u guys are talking about. The people here with great knowledge need to create a condensed, practical and executable set of instructions with good info. that the average person can use without having too many problems. Most Americans are simply not going to spend years and years on research because they simply don't have the time...

In a nutshell, just tell us the best and quickest way to attain freedom. If the founding fathers had decided to educate the majority of Americans instead of just getting on with the job of revolution, I'm afraid we'd still be here drinking tea with our crumpets while listening to "God Save The King/Queen"!

By the way, no disrespect was meant to anyone, this is a great forum with good posters but seriously, it would be nice if someone just got to the bloody point... Thanks...

[International American]

Originally Posted by kokomoj0

If that is the case does anyone know how I can start digging into this? I never agreed to any lien on my property so it had to be done with previous owners? Of course knowing the right questions to ask is 99% of the battle!

I don't think anyone will give u a straight answer, also, I have been observing this forum for quite a while, some good info. but no "silver bullet" or "Holy Grail" unfortunately...

[rottweiler]

Wisconsin state is not the one doing the taxing.

Corporations created to govern federal union member resident aliens of the de jure states are the ones behind it all. These non-constitutional things are being done under a private international admiralty/maritime jurisdiction and not the common law of Wisconsin.

They conned the people into these private jurisdictions so they could get rich and richer.

Originally Posted by kokomoj0

Here is the section 14 of the Wisconsin Constitution: Sec. 14. All lands within the state are declared to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer term than fifteen years in which rent or service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of land, hereafter made, are declared to be void.


The question is; why do we pay land and building taxes in Wisconsin when it says right in the constitution that all lands are allodial?

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Originally Posted by International American

in a nutshell, just tell us the best and quickest way to attain freedom...it would be nice if someone just got to the bloody point...

"Just tell you"? At some point you are going to have to use your own head- many many suggestions have been made on this forum like:

1/ Get an exemption. thats means YOU GO (not "I tell you") to the local county office and request the proper form and make the proper claim. But you already knew that.

2/ Get the parcel off the rolls. Happens all the time when there is an amalgamation or sub division. No registration, no tax. This will require the same step as #1 above.

Was this English plain enough? I think some grasp of the 'Latinate' is needed and normal anyway- we use this everyday.

Originally Posted by International American

When I said "forced", I was using the word in a loose sense. Sure, u don't have to pay but after a while u will end up on a park bench!

Depends on if you put the pedal to to the metal and do your homework. Get an exemption, or obtain exclusion.

And your "park bench dormitory potential" depends on the laws of the state in question-

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/taxati...tml#post130504

did you even bother to read this? In Texas you don't have to pay property taxes- they pay themselves!

I can think of many states and countries w/ similar laws.

Its a business- have you ever gone to a corporate office and actually tried to negotiate?

I suspect you have been to a bank before- how about the county registrar? If you have a problem with a utility company, do you go go online and wait for someone to tell you what to do, or do you call the office? How about school? or any contract or commerce out there?

This is what I meant by the "masonic dead-end": instead of stories- practice, implement, do, ask, seek, find, get, achieve.

Originally Posted by International American

If the founding fathers had decided to educate the majority of Americans instead of just getting on with the job of revolution, I'm afraid we'd still be here drinking tea with our crumpets while listening to "God Save The King/Queen"!

So get on with it! Tea is good though, this time don't dump it in the harbour, take it home and brew it!

[mrg]

As far as I can tell:

We ARE still "listening to God Save the Queen."

We are still "paying" a "debt" "owed" (under treaty?) to a "tea import" corporation via its "banking" and "attorning" Esquires.

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The Grand Union Flag, also known as the Congress flag, the First Navy Ensign, the Cambridge Flag, and the Continental Colors.

[International American]

Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham

"Just tell you"? At some point you are going to have to use your own head

Hey farmer, take it easy dude... lol I actually don't pay any taxes of any kind but that's a different story, nothing to do with the good stuff u guys talk about here, it's amazing what a bit of money, good connections, a good lawyer and accountant can do, it also helps if u have more than one nationality too. I hope u didn't misinterpret what I said, I was NOT criticizing u good folks in here, I was just saying that it would be nice if people with greater knowledge in this field (LIKE YOU and others in this forum) would help out the people with less knowledge, like the average American.

Now I have many methods but unfortunately they are quite impractical for the average working class people. U need to have some serious cash to do what I and some others that I know do to legally avoid taxes and other related BS. Anyway, keep up the good work and I hope u understand that my post was supposed to be a positive one but maybe it came out the wrong way. Also, I did read that link u posted but I don't like in Texas, still I get the point u made anyway...

As for getting up and doing something, yep, I am going to go to the RON PAUL march in Washington D.C. in April 15th (TAX/THEFT DAY) to protest the scum FEDERAL RESERVE and it's IRS "Income Tax" stealing monkeys. Also, thousands of Americans are going to stop paying this illegal tax. Stop feeding the BEAST and the BEAST will die. It's time to TAKE our country back, the "elections" are totally RIGGED, we simply can't use their system to get our own nation back because it is set up for us to lose... I hope the good freedom loving folks here will join us! Thanks...