Need Land Patent info.

[trooper2ls]

It depends on where your land is located and if it was originally granted or conqured. Each property has unique challenges as I understand it. My property is in New York and was easier than most due to the fact it was (and still is) a Holland Land Company lot. This land was purchased from the Seneca tribe back in 1789 and has clear title all the way back to that point.

First I visited the microfilm archives located in Fredonia, New York to reaseach and obtain a copy of the original patent and allodial title based on the information on my title search provided by the title insurance company. I was fortunate that a copy of those records were so close.. the originals are in Amsterdam. From that point it took a year of letter writing and personal visits to the state treasury department to finally reveal the dollar amount attached.

I encountered resistance (or ignorance?) at every turn in dealing with the state treasury. After about 6 months of getting nowhere I finally broke down and had my attorney (Feldman, Kramer & Monaco .. same guys as Trump uses) send a request on my behalf ... and lo and behold I finally started to make headway.

Once I was able to determine the amount and who to pay I had to go to a coin broker and purchase the proper amount of "Lawful Money" and make an appointment at the treasury in Albany, New York to make the payment and have the title passed to me. I'm still in the process of the perfected patent but should have it within the next month or two according to what they have told me.

It is not easy and they don't want it to be because it reduces the collateral for the national debt each time someone pulls their property out of hock.

The town assessor owns the property right next to me and she is going to have a cow once I file my affidavit with the county to update the status of my property.

..J

[palani]

If you paid in lawful money, say 90% silver of US mintage, the coins are going to cost you at least 10 times face value. If you paid in gold specie the coins are going to cost you 20 times face value (newer coins). If your tax bill was $1,000 your actual cost to obtain silver coins would be $10,000 and your cost to obtain gold coins would be $20,000.

Why not simply use a postal money order and presume that since the U.S. Post Office is considered solvent this represents lawful money?

[gldskr]

trooper

You're quite the storyteller, its unfortunate though that your story tends towards fiction and not of fact. The history of the Holland Land Company can be found here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Land_Company

Originally Posted by trooper

My property is in New York and was easier than most due to the fact it was (and still is) a Holland Land Company lot. This land was purchased from the Seneca tribe back in 1789 and has clear title all the way back to that point.

Three falsehoods emerge.
1. The Holland Land Company was dissolved in 1846, so presently there can be no nexus to it.

2. It was purchased from Robert Morris not the Senecas.

3. The purchase occurred in 1792 and 1793, but clear title did not occur until the 1797 Treaty of Big Tree.

Originally Posted by trooper

First I visited the microfilm archives located in Fredonia, New York to reaseach and obtain a copy of the original patent and allodial title based on the information on my title search provided by the title insurance company. I was fortunate that a copy of those records were so close.. the originals are in Amsterdam.

You were fortunate indeed. Why did they drag those documents half way around the globe, when they may have been needed here to defend their title? Those crazy Dutch, they're funny like that.

Originally Posted by trooper

From that point it took a year of letter writing and personal visits to the state treasury department to finally reveal the dollar amount attached.

Perhaps you can regale us with your knowledge, of the mechanics of how you discovered this mysterious $ amount that your property is being used as collateral for. How is the state treasury related to the Feds and the national debt? Is there a special handshake or something?

Originally Posted by trooper

Once I was able to determine the amount and who to pay I had to go to a coin broker and purchase the proper amount of "Lawful Money" and make an appointment at the treasury in Albany, New York to make the payment and have the title passed to me. I'm still in the process of the perfected patent but should have it within the next month or two according to what they have told me.

Aren't you putting the cart before the horse here. The patent determines who the title holder is, without the right to the patent, no amount of "money" can confer such right. I guess Trump's whiz kids know something us yokels don't.

You mentioned in another thread - http://www.suijuris.net/forum/articl...tml#post132027

Originally Posted by trooper

I live on my own allodial titled land...

If you're in the process of perfecting your patent how can this be? Also, how does one go about perfecting their patent?

Maybe when sheisanidiot gets done with her redemption papers, she can explain it to us.

gldskr

[trooper2ls]

First of all my answers were specifically for my land in New York State. The other 49 states work differently. What the real estate law and procedures are here is not necessarily the law elsewhere. And yes.. New York is not the Empire State for no reason. The laws here make it an attractive place to built one.

Do you believe everything you read on the internet? I wouldn't think so.. seeing as the problems you found with my "story". Here is a quote from the "About" page on Wikipedia.

"Because Wikipedia is an ongoing work to which, in principle, anybody can contribute, it differs from a paper-based reference source in important ways. In particular, older articles tend to be more comprehensive and balanced, while newer articles more frequently contain significant misinformation, unencyclopedic content, or vandalism. Users need to be aware of this to obtain valid information and avoid misinformation that has been recently added and not yet removed"

So anon authors and a disclaimer of potential inaccurate content = solid facts ?

I discovered the Reed Library archives when personally visiting the holland land company museum near my house. In New York each town has an official historian. This was my starting point. Sorry if the dates were a little off.. but I was answering this from my head not a book.

http://www.hollandlandoffice.com/home.htm
http://www.fredonia.edu/library/special_collections/

For an accurate history.. visit the source:

https://stadsarchief.amsterdam.nl/ar...ht/333.nl.html

You are correct in the fact Robert Morris was the purchaser from the Seneca.. but once again a full history of the HLC was not the objective of the post but a quick background for those who are not familiar with the HLC.

The mechanics of how the attached debt was obtained was several letters by FCM. I'll have to scan and sanitize these, but keep in mind different states have different procedures. As I mentioned I had no luck myself, I had to enlist the aid of my attorney.

As far as how the state is connected to the Fed.. once again it is clear in the comptroller reports that go to DC and to the GAO.

You cannot update the patent in New York without having the allodial title. A patent in New York cannot be issued without the Allodial title first! Remember the patent already exists... you are not the beneficiary though. That is the point of having it updated to name you as the beneficiary.

On the Gold/Silver issue. I was dealing with Patricia Warrington, Assistant Comptroller, Office of the New York State Comptroller, State of New York and I had to pay based on the daily exchange price. This is why I brought the siver coins because we knew that 1 oz Maple Leaves would either overshoot or undershoot the mark. Mrs. Warrington indicated that for this particular transaction that gold/silver was the only option. I had to make an appointment to pay this.. you can't just walk in and drop your gold on the counter. Jack Hunt, coinbroker, located in Buffalo was able to sell me some very circulated and worn Morgans at very close to their silver content price.

[Elsie]

gldskr your "WELCOME" was a little strange.

[gldskr]

trooperdude

I don't respond to attack you or " keep you in line", the members will make their own determination. I respond only to expose the fraud and charlatan that you are, in cahoots with other clones of your ilk.

Your verbose monologues drone on about I've done this and I've done that but have scant evidence of any specifics. And when taken to task your response is more drivel.

You've shown nothing but abject ignorance of the subject in question and have purported to do things that are impossible.

Originally Posted by trooperdude

You are correct in the fact Robert Morris was the purchaser from the Seneca.. but once again a full history of the HLC was not the objective of the post but a quick background for those who are not familiar with the HLC.Yes, that is the hook of the story, but one who claims to have allodial title should have rudimentary knowledge of the origins of the patent where such title eminates.

The mechanics of how the attached debt was obtained was several letters by FCM. I'll have to scan and sanitize these, but keep in mind different states have different procedures. As I mentioned I had no luck myself, I had to enlist the aid of my attorney. So, what you're saying is that you don't communicate with your high powered attorney to find out WTF is going on. If this is the case just admit that you are clueless. In the alternative it would be great if you could upload some docs.

As far as how the state is connected to the Fed.. once again it is clear in the comptroller reports that go to DC and to the GAO.Perhaps you could scan these reports or otherwise provide a link that could substanciate the link between your property and the national debt.

You cannot update the patent in New York without having the allodial title. A patent in New York cannot be issued without the Allodial title first! Remember the patent already exists... you are not the beneficiary though. That is the point of having it updated to name you as the beneficiary.
This is, of course, a total crock of dung. What is the difference between the patent and the allodial title? How does one acquire an allodial title? How does one update the patent to be the named beneficiary? Supposedly you've done these things, please elucidate your findings.

On the Gold/Silver issue. I was dealing with Patricia Warrington, Assistant Comptroller, Office of the New York State Comptroller, State of New York and I had to pay based on the daily exchange price. This is why I brought the siver coins because we knew that 1 oz Maple Leaves would either overshoot or undershoot the mark. Mrs. Warrington indicated that for this particular transaction that gold/silver was the only option. I had to make an appointment to pay this.. you can't just walk in and drop your gold on the counter. Jack Hunt, coinbroker, located in Buffalo was able to sell me some very circulated and worn Morgans at very close to their silver content price. Gee, the math for this step must have been a tough one for you, considering the length of the paragraph it took to describe it.

We've all seen the good cop bad cop routine; if you can sell it, more power to ya, but in the end you'll probably go the Codee route.

gldskr

[trooper2ls]

Gldskr.. it seems all of your posts are designed to inflame and/or slur. Your infantile demeanor is somewhat jocose. I am somewhat honored that you have taken such great lengths to read and rebutt my responses point by point. I'm not selling anything.. just pointing out the truth. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

There’s been much talked about in relation to Land Patents lately. As far as most of that talk goes, I’m glad people are talking about them. It’s about time. The problem with patents is-ignorance.

Quote: Anonymous Source "How Land Patents Work" Sept, 3 2003 3:48 PM

------
Some say, "The only bad news is no news."

It seems that most of the people in our nation today either have no idea what a Land Patent is, or they think it’s a good way to swindle, or otherwise avoid paying a bank or the IRS out of some amount of funds. And, they think that they own their land because they paid for it and they have a Warranty Deed.

Though it’s true, "Land, protected by Land Patent, can’t lawfully be seized for debt or taxes." Therefore, no mortgage or tax liability can stand against a Land Patent. It’s still wrong to make an agreement or obligation and then hide from that agreement or obligation by any means. An honorable person just plain won’t do it.

We live in a nation that hasn’t had elections in its central government since before 1944. The States individually stopped electing government officials at least by 1968. The main cause of that was electors were either ignorant of their responsibilities or part of the national takeover. The main cause of that was the people forgot about their abstracts and Land Patents and accepted Title Insurance instead. (An abstract is a document that contains all of the transfer documents used to assign Title to Land from the Patent to the present.)

Some people will tell you that land patents don’t work. What that means is they don’t know how land ownership works. They speak from ignorance. For those who have tried land patents unsuccessfully, the cause of their lack of success is – ignorance. It’s time to put that ignorance to rest.

Think about it.

Where did the land within the United States of America come from?
It came from: England, France, Spain, Mexico, Russia, Hawaii, and from the Native American Indians.
How did the United States acquire the land?
By purchase like with Manhattan Island, the Louisiana Purchase, and Alaska;
By war power like with, Hawaii and much of the Native American Indian lands;
By Treaty like, The Northwest Territories Treaty, The Guadeloupe Hidalgo Treaty; and
By treaty as the end result of war like the original war for independence from England.

The end result — regardless of how the land was acquired — a Treaty was ultimately designed whereby the land was resolved and reserved for the proper possession and individual ownership of the people of the United States of America. Security in land rights was, and is, found within the Treaty.

Once land was acquired in the nation it was held by the United States until someone proved their claim to it. Once the land was properly claimed and filed, the General Land Office certified that the surveys were paid for. According to the various land acts of Congress the land was then made patent under the signature and seal of the President of the United States of America.

When a State enters the Union of the United States of America, an Enabling Act is agreed to. The Enabling Act requires that all of the unappropriated (unpatented) lands be forever granted to the Union for disposition. For example, here is a segment from Colorado’s Enabling Act:

"That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States". Enabling Act of Colorado
Without such transfer of control over the right and title to the land, there would be no effective authority in a land patent sealed under the signature of the President. For example, with few exceptions, U. S. of A. land patents have no authority in the Republic of Texas because Texas never ceded its lands to the United States.
Notice the net effect of these Enabling Acts in relation to state taxes and state statutes:
‘After exclusive jurisdiction over lands within a State have been ceded to the United States, private property located thereon is not subject to taxation by the State, nor can state statutes enacted subsequent to the transfer have any operation therein.’ Surplus Trading Company v. Cook, 281 U.S. 647; Western Union Telegraph Co. v. Chiles, 214 U.S. 274;
Arlington Hotel v. Fant, 278 U.S. 439; Pacific Coast Dairy v. Department of Agriculture, 318 U.S. 285
Every State within the Union of States (with the exception of the Republic of Texas) granted their unappropriated lands to the United States as a condition of statehood. Then as people acquired land, under various acts of Congress the President signed the patents securing the patented rights to the patent holders and their heirs and assigns forever.
There are many more cases where the United States Supreme Court has supported the fact that the Land Patent certifies absolute and supreme title to land. There are no cases where the courts ever ruled against the properly obtained Land Patent.

Summa Corp. v. California (466 U.S. 198), is not listed above, yet it is one of the best cites describing how land patents work. In that 1980’s case the court noted that they had ruled and ruled and ruled and they were not going to rule again, the Land Patent is supreme title to land. The case was one where California was granted the tidewater lands in the California Republic Constitution and therefore California went after a family’s land, which land was secured under patent on an old Spanish Land Grant. The case doesn’t talk much about land patents. It talks about the Guadeloupe Hidalgo Treaty. Imagine that, a land patent case that speaks mostly about the supremacy clause of the Constitution, which clause states that Treaties are supreme law.

Here’s how land patents work:

The Land was originally acquired within the United States of America by some Treaty.
Your Land Patent secures the rights of the Treaty upon which the land was originally acquired within the territories of the United States from the Treaty to the individual person named on the patent.
The patent specifically grants the described lands to the party named on the patent and to their heirs and their assigns forever.
The party named on the patent then passes the inheritance, grants, or assigns the patented lands to someone else, which assignee is now named on the patent by that assignment. The documents that demonstrate such an assignment are often called, "Deeds".
Because the granter can not compel you to accept the assignment it is necessary for you to take some action to signify your acceptance of the assignment. For this reason we use the "Declaration of Land Patent".
Once you have accepted the proper assignment of the Land Patent and you bring it forward by your authoritative declaration, you are named on the physical Land Patent where it says, "and to his heir and assigns forever".
It doesn’t matter how many times the land is reassigned. The patent by its own creation lasts "forever" and belongs to the named party "and to their heirs and assigns forever".

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Currently the process on my land is at the stage of public notice. In this state it is required to post the fact that I have brought the patent up in my name in the legal notices of our local newspaper. Once I have met the notice requirement then I can record the patent in the county records.

[mrg]

U S v. DETROIT TIMBER & LUMBER CO., 200 U.S. 321 (1906)
• This is a good case for for land patents.

This is the start of many cases to come.

Stella Hughes v. State of Washington 389 US 290 (1967)

• The U.S. Land Patent prevails over State Constitution.

Property rights are paramount.

Not only does the U. S. Constitution protect property rights but, the laws of the Federal Government do also.

SUMMA v. CALIFORNIA. 466 U.S. 198 (1984)
• This case is very strong on the U.S. Land Patent.

"must have been presented in the patent proceedings or barred".

Patent proceedings consist of the patent and all the act of congress mentioned on the patent.

All patents have one or more acts of congress.

If you have viewed the land patents in this cite you would note, they have many covenants.

These patents can be used as exhibits.

If your patent has no covenants then: "Owner is free to do with his property what he wills, absent criminal intent, constitutional limitations, or liability for tortuous activities in connection therewith". (214 N.J. Super. 275. Feb 14, 1990)

The covenants run with the land.

But only those that are in the patent proceedings.

California Oregon Power v. Beaver Portland cement. 295 U. S. 142 (1935)
• This case has to do with the Desert Land Act.

Under the Desert Land Act, as the owners of the public domain, the government possessed the power to dispose of land and water thereon together or separately.

U. S.v. Coronado Beach Co, 255 U.S. 427 (1921)
• This patent like all patents can not collaterally attacked.

It is spelled out: [it] "can not be changed from the original".

United States v. James Jim 409 U. S. 80 (1972)
• Jim explains several things about the land patent.

CASS COUNTY, MINNESOTA, ET AL . v. LEECH LAKE BAND OF CHIPPEWA INDIANS
• This U. S. Supreme Court case will take some time to read and comprehend. This is a thought-provoking land patent case.

Chances are when you finish reading there will be some unanswered questions.

You may want to read the Summa v. California 466 U. S. 198 (1984): "must have been presented in the patent proceedings or be barred".

United States v. Beggerly No. 97-731 (1998 )
• The news media has kept this one quiet.

This has to do with land in Louisiana.

Beggerly applied for a copy of the land patent, to Horn Island he had bought at a tax sale from the state of Louisiana in 1950.

He paid $51.20 for 625-acre tract. The

B.L.M. did not come forth with the Land Patent to the property.

The court ruled against Beggerly.

Later Beggerly pressed the issue of the land patent.

It was finally found.

He opened the case, presented the patent to the court.

The first case was over ruled in his favor.

The patent was issued prior to statehood. The State acquired NO jurisdiction over the land at the time the Territory became a state.

The treaty was in place.

Treaties prevail.

The irony of this story is that the state of Louisiana had laid an unlawful tax on the land.

The land patent is a contract between the patentee and the U.S. "Article 1 sec 10 shall pas no Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts"

So the short of the story is, if an heir to the person who lost the land to the State of Louisiana comes forward and files ejectment action in federal court Mr. Beggerly could lose the island.

KNOW YOUR LAND RIGHTS!
LANDRIGHTS.COM

[gldskr]

Note: Only the first and last paragraph from trooperdudes post at http://www.suijuris.net/forum/132347-post17.html are his own. The rest are a plagarised cut and paste from this site http://www.teamlaw.org/LandPatents.htm

So trooper, why the reluctance to give credit? Verification is our lifeblood here.

Also, in light of the fact that you purport to agree with what you posted, why is there no mention in that post of a nexus between your property and the national debt? Is Teamlaw wrong? Are you wrong? Supposedly you uncovered the exact amount you had to pay, how much was it? How many Morgans did it cost you?

There are other questions in my previous post you neglected to answer (those are the ones with the questionmarks) and it would be great if you could enlighten us.

In the future though, if you refuse to be upfront, we'll just call you the cutnpastekid.

P.S. I wonder where Elsie went, this is her thread isn't it?

gldskr

[trooper2ls]

I did cut and paste this info from a word document given to me as part of a greater collection that dates back to 2003 by an indian tribe that I have an affiliation with who has asked to remain anonymous. I aquired a massive amount of reasearch from them about 8 years ago and receive updates from them regularly. I have attended several of their seminars around the country over the years and they told me that I may share the information, but not to reveal the source of the research unless I knew the person and could vouch for them personally... on the internet I cannot, so I will not quote them as the source. I had to pass a criminal background check and undergo several personal interviews before they released their research to me. As you can imagine this type of information can be abused by a dishonest person. If they cite a source, then I will pass it along if they didn't cite a source then I assume it was written by them and quote as "anonymous" source.

Now did they take the information from Team Law and forget to credit them or did Team Law re-publish their research and writing..and not quote them as the source as they requested? I don't know, but in either case it is a very good accurate summary of how these things work.

I respect these men and their position.

I also respect all members here regardless of their opinion or viewpoint on an issue as long as they speak (write) the truth. I also respect other members and am mature enough to admit fault or error and do not feel the need to create silly little nicknames for users who do not agree with my position. Just trying to keep it real.

Many minds with varied perspectives helps make sense of these very complex times and issues.


..J