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  #1  
Old 02-25-2008, 01:33 PM
Elsie Elsie is offline
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Need Land Patent info.

Hi - I'm new to this sight. I am having difficulty manuvering and I am not sure if I am in the right place to ask questions.

I read an article by "lizardhaven and wisper" and I am seeking more knowledge of Land Patents. I have the original land patent and brought it up to me as an assign. I did a declaration of land patent and a homestead declaration and filed it all.

The appraisal district will not recognize it - I have a court date coming up. Any input would be welcome!
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:58 PM
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trooper2ls trooper2ls is offline
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Allodial Title

Did you obtain the allodial title, reasearch and pay the public debt that was attached to the property and then obtain a perfected land patent? The land patent for the orginal 13 colonies can be obtained from the state where the property is located. Federal land patents do not exist in the original 13 colonies. For the other states you can visit: http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/


There are three ways to lawfully opt out of property taxes: obtain allodial title, un-record your property, or have your real property re-classified as private.

Allodial title means supreme ownership. In the united States of America, all property is allodial in nature. This means that all property is subject to supreme ownership by the people. This also means that federal government activities which take private or public land to use for environmental or biosphere purposes, are illegally stolen from the people, who are their rightful owners.

If you can obtain allodial title to your real property, you will have effectively created an envelope in which you reign supreme (e.g. the King has allodial title to the castle and the kingdom). No zoning ordinances, easements, bureaucratic regulations, state or federal law have any effect on property held in allodium. Literally, you have created a kingdom in the midst of bureaucratic chaos, and you will never again receive any property tax assessments.

Needless to say, the government does not want you to obtain allodial title to your property, and they will actively work to prevent you from doing so.
There are three main steps toward acquiring allodial title.

First, the property must be completely paid off. No mortgage, lien. or other attachment can exist.

Second, you must go to the County Recorder and do a title search. Do it yourself; do not have an attorney (vested interest) or title company representative do it for you, because nobody has as much interest as you in the results. Do the search yourself. You must search back to the original land grants, ensuring that there are no hidden clouds on the title. Once you have completed a successful title search, file for a federal land patent on the land on which the property is located (if the property is in one of the original thirteen states, you will need to go to the state for a land patent - no federal land patents exist for these states).

Now comes the hardest part. Every piece of recorded real property is used to collateralize government loans, so your real property has public debt attached to it. You need to find out the amount of the public debt (approximately seven times the annual property tax) and the holder of the debt, then pay it off.

The government doesn't want you to accomplish this, so they will work against you. I suggest you burn the research candle at both ends, so to speak. Contact the County Recorder in the county where the property is located. Contact the Department of the Interior in Washington, D.C. Be prepared in both instances to meet with clerks who do not know what you are talking about. Ask for supervisors until you get someone who can help you.

Once you successfully identify and pay off the public debt on your real property only then can you proceed with the final filings with the County Clerk to obtain allodial title.


The process of un-recording your property is easier, though not quite as solid. It is based on the fact that you are assessed a tax based upon using government services (County Recorder) to which you are not entitled or mandated. The process involves transferring ownership to another party, notifying the County Recorder that a transfer has been completed, then having the property - after a reasonable time period has passed - transferred back into your name. If done correctly, the property is not recorded anymore, and there will be no further tax assessments.

A man in Massachusetts had 160 acres and wanted to give two of them to his son. He called the Tax Assessor and asked him to reduce his assessment to 158 acres. The Assessor did so.
The son never recorded his two acres. twelve and a half years passed. The son now wanted to borrow money on his two acres. The bank said they would loan him the money, but only if he recorded the property first. He wanted the money, so he recorded the property. Two weeks later, he received a property tax statement - for the current year only! The past twelve years went un-assessed - no tax!


The final method of opting out of property tax is one which was developed a couple of years ago. It involves the classification of property, on which the assessed tax is based.

Property which is taxed is always identified by one of three commercial classifications: residential, industrial or agricultural. Private property cannot be taxed!
Contact your Tax Assessor and ask for a written explanation of the numbered codes appearing on your property tax statement. Once you have deciphered the statement, you will find your property classified by one of the above commercial designations.

Write a letter to your Tax Assessor, explaining that you have discovered an error in your tax statement. Do not mention the tax itself, as the error in question relates only to the classification. Explain that your property has mistakenly been classified as ____________ (agricultural, industrial, residential), and to please correct the classification to read "private." Ask the Assessor to notify you by mail once the matter has been handled. Be polite and sign the letter, using words like "Sincerely", "Best wishes", etc. There is no reason be belligerent at this point.

If the Assessor honors your wishes, you will never see a property tax statement again. If, as is more likely, the Assessor writes back, refusing to adjust his records, you may now open up discussion as to why not. Ask whether you have the right to own private property. He will say yes, of course. Ask why he refuses to classify it as private property. He will either explain to you that he cannot tax property unless it is classified pursuant to constitutional limitations (residential, industrial, agricultural), or he will reveal to you that you do not really own the property (in which case he has admitted to fraud, nullifying the transfer of property in the first place, since you were not aware of what you were doing at the time).
In either case, once the Assessor brings up taxation, you can now make the argument that your real property has been re-classified, without your permission, for the sole purpose of taxation. This is the firm basis for a lawsuit.

There is a Tax Assessor (not a clerk, the actual Assessor) in Tennessee who has admitted that he cannot tax private property. He can, if necessary, be subpoenaed to testify. There is a private Citizen in Tennessee, who has not received a penny in property tax assessments on his private land (160 acres or so) for over fifteen years! If you need it for a court case, he will sign an affidavit so stating. In other words, the precedent exists and therefore, if you pursue it, you cannot lose!

Hindsight is always 20/20. What you have done already sounds like the half baked ideas from various patriot groups that have been "sold" to people in various seminars and handbooks as a way out of taxes. You have to verify everything before you start anything. Rules change by the day and something that worked for "a friend of a friend" last week may not be applicable to you in your location and time.

Good luck!

..J
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2008, 03:15 PM
Elsie Elsie is offline
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Thanks

Thank You trooper21s for your reply. I have been able to read some former articles, since I posted. I'm grateful for all.
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2008, 03:33 PM
sheisaceo sheisaceo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper2ls
Now comes the hardest part. Every piece of recorded real property is used to collateralize government loans, so your real property has public debt attached to it. You need to find out the amount of the public debt (approximately seven times the annual property tax) and the holder of the debt, then pay it off.

..J

Hola Trooper...I am still in my infancy here. Paying off the public debt seven times the annual property tax is staggering for me and remember I haven't gotten past the copyright yet. My damn cd/dvd drive is broken and I should have my data on my server by tomorrow night. So is this in line with the IBOE then? Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:09 PM
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trooper2ls trooper2ls is offline
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I don't believe so..

I paid mine with Canadian Maple Leaves and Morgan Dollars. (which I purchased using FRN's) I don't think they will accept anything other than lawful money at that point... you are "paying" a debt rather than discharging it.

Different properties have different amounts of debt attached to them. In my case it was about 3x of the current tax bill. Of course the upside is that once that is done, they can't send you any more tax bills.

If there is a way to pay it using paper.. I'm not aware of it. Mine is done, but for future if there is another way.. let us know.

..J
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2008, 05:06 PM
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netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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Posts: 596
Very cool....

The extinguishing of a debt using lawful money (gold and silver) rather than discharging a debt using FRNs.

IBOE is the area of Negotiable Instruments, outside of Common Law (in Civil Law, Commercial Law, UCC, International (Admiralty) Law). Land Patents (perfected title) is also Common Law. I image that being a Statutory US citizen precludes one from obtaining/possessing the land patent. In my mind, land patents and IBOEs are on totally different planets.

Sheisaceo, what do you mean by getting past the copyright?

If any of the information above is incorrect, please chime in. I'm here to learn and making mistakes is the fastest way towards that objective .

Regards,
netwrkranger

Last edited by netwrkranger : 02-25-2008 at 11:32 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:13 PM
sheisaceo sheisaceo is offline
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Hola. What I mean by copyright is to capture my STRAWMAN as such as this is the avenue that I have chosen to take to gain my sovereignty. I know that there is argument both for and against but I decided to start with that and go from there.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:58 PM
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netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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Personally...

... I would avoid the STRAWMAN argument. The materials are interesting to read. I would read the materials personally, but I wouldn't implement the material. I'm not saying all the information is wrong, but I feel there are better proven solutions.

I believe time is better spent focusing on perfecting one's de jure state citizenship. LB Bork's book, "The Red
Amendment" would be a much better route to go than "capturing one's STRAWMAN".

Besides, instead of doing the STRAWMAN methods, why not just form a corporation and use that to handle one's affairs? Corporations seem to have more rights and protection in courts than individuals do.

Regards,
netwrkranger
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:08 PM
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gldskr gldskr is offline
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netwrkranger

You have been played by the three stooges demonstrating their classic "Who's on first, What's on second" routine. Good for a laugh but hardly educational.

Welcome to Elsie a.k.a. Shemp, as our newest stooge.

gldskr
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2008, 04:48 PM
Jeffrey Alan Jeffrey Alan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
paying off debt

Quote:
I paid mine with Canadian Maple Leaves and Morgan Dollars. (which I purchased using FRN's) I don't think they will accept anything other than lawful money at that point... you are "paying" a debt rather than discharging it.

Different properties have different amounts of debt attached to them. In my case it was about 3x of the current tax bill. Of course the upside is that once that is done, they can't send you any more tax bills.

If there is a way to pay it using paper.. I'm not aware of it. Mine is done, but for future if there is another way.. let us know.

..J

trooper2ls,

Where do you go to find out the debt on land?

thanks,
Jeffrey Alan

Last edited by Jeffrey Alan : 02-26-2008 at 04:51 PM.
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