What Happened At The Drivers License Center

[mikewb]

TO WHOEVER TAKES THE TIME TO READ THIS, IF YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK AS TO WHAT I CAN DO ABOUT THIS PLEASE REPLY. FIRST OFF, MY NAME IS MIKE IM 25 YEARS OLD AND FROM CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA. AND THIS IS A EXPERIENCE I HAD AT DRIVERS LICENSE CENTER IN WILLIAMSPORT PA. OH AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS A SLIGHTLY EDITED VERSION OF A LETTER THAT I WROTE TO MY LOCAL A.C.L.U. CHAPTER ALONG WITH THE A.C.L.U.'s COMPLAINT FORM. HERES WHAT HAPPENED........ ON THE AFTERNOON OF SATURDAY APRIL 15TH 2006 I TOOK A TRIP TO THE DRIVERS LICENSE CENTER TO HAVE MY DRIVERS LICENSE RENEWED. MY DRIVERS LICENSE EXPIRED THE FOLLOWING DAY ON SUNDAY APRIL 16TH 2006. AS MOST PEOPLE KNOW DRIVERS LICENSE CENTERS ARE CLOSED ON SUNDAYS. SO I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO RENEW MY DRIVERS LICENSE ON THIS DAY. WHEN MY NAME WAS CALLED TO HAVE MY PICTURE TAKEN AND SIGN MY SIGNATURE FOR MY DRIVERS LICENSE I INITIALLY WROTE UNDERNEATH MY SIGNATURE: "WITHOUT PREDUJICE UCC 1-308". BY ME DOING THIS IT MUST HAVE PUT UP AN ALARM OF SOME SORT. BECAUSE THE FEMALE EMPLOYEE IN THE PROCESS OF ISSUING ME MY DRIVERS LICENSE SAID TO ME QUOTE: "I DONT THINK I AM ALLOWED TO ISSUE A LICENSE IF YOU WRITE "WITHOUT PREDUJICE UCC 1-308 UNDERNEATH YOUR SIGNATURE". SHE THEN ASKED ME TO WAIT WHILE SHE WENT TO SEE IF SHE COULD OK IT WITH THE SUPERVISOR BEFORE ISSUANCE. WELL, THE SUPERVISOR WAS ON A TWO HOUR LUNCH BREAK. I GUESS WHEN YOU ARE A SUPERVISOR OF A DRIVERS LICENSE CENTER YOU ARE ALLOWED A TWO HOUR LUNCH BREAK. WELL I WAIT FOR TWO HOURS UNTIL THE SUPERVISOR FINALLY RETURNED. THE SUPERVISOR, A MAN WHO TOLD ME HIS NAME WAS JACK MCGEE, AND I EVEN HAD HIM SPELL IT FOR ME said this in regards to writing “Without Prejudice, UCC 1-308”underneath my signature on my drivers license, I can not issue you a license if you sign that underneath your name. I asked him why? and he said it was a rule and a policy. I asked him if I could see this rule and policy in writing he was claiming exist. Jack Mcgee then says,I have hundreds and hundreds of files with rules and policies in the back of this department and I do not have the time to look. He then says now either you can sign your license without writing underneath your signature “Without Prejudice,UCC 1-308”or I can not issue you a license. I kept asking him why? and he kept coming up with excuse after excuse. I told him that when a person signs their signature they are signing into a contract and that is why people like me who know their Rights reserve their Rights under the Uniform Commercial Code. Nothing I said to Jack Mcgee meant anything to him. So after getting nowhere I signed it without Reserving my Rights and writing “Without Prejudice,UCC 1-308”underneath my signature. I left the Drivers License Center feeling very defeated because the supervisor would not let me reserve my Rights and exercise my Remedy under the UCC. I felt very miserable that afternoon and promised to take action anyway I could. This incident or shall I say violation took place on Saturday afternoon April 15th 2006 at Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, Drivers License Center, Giant Plaza, Williamsport, PA. 17701 Phone# (570) 321-6535. Supervisors name is: Jack Mcgee,The Employee who issued license also a witness:Gertrude Ward, also another witness was my girlfriend Tonya Gatz.


Sincerely Concerned,


Michael Wayne Brown

[Livefire]

Mike,

I have to have a drivers license for employment purposes. When I had to renew mine (Michigan), I tried to sign mine all rights reserved as well. The clerk at the counter told me that the computer would reject any restrictive endorsements and that if I so desired, I could write that in when I received the license in the mail.

Originally Posted by Livefire

Mike,

I have to have a drivers license for employment purposes. When I had to renew mine (Michigan), I tried to sign mine all rights reserved as well. The clerk at the counter told me that the computer would reject any restrictive endorsements and that if I so desired, I could write that in when I received the license in the mail.

Livefire, Sorry, but that's hor**** on the part of the clerk.

It really doesn't matter then if you don't give them notice of novation.

If I were in your shoes, I would copy the license, and let them know that you had novated the signature line to retain all your rights.

By Registered Mail, using a third party.

Then, and only then, can it be considered valid as an addition.

Henry Franklin

[Fed-Up]

You should have told them to stuff their little contract mike

[Livefire]

HB,

I have to agree with your assessment of the situation. I think an interesting idea would be to create your own "Memorandum of Agreeement" with the DMV, Sec'y of State, local court and LE agencies via a default process that is recorded with the county clerk. When pulled over present a copy of that doc as proof of your unalienable right to use the highways and byways of the land. The PTB can always refuse for cause when you present the instrument initially so there is no recourse for them if they are negligent in refusing or rebutting your documentation!

[mnchicago]

HenryBowman:

What do you mean "copy" the license? What do you
have to show anyone if/once you do "copy" the DL,
the police, for example?

How can one "novate" an issued DL. I tried writing
over my signature, after issue, but that does not work.

--

mikewb:

Great job in being persistent with the clerk.

In the world of wudda, cudda, shudda,

I would have left, having his name, and then sent a
certified letter to him asking for the specific law,
statute, code that says he has the authority to refuse
to issue you a driver's license for signing "Without
prejudice" over their signature.

I would also clearly state in the letter that he explicitly
refused to issue you a driver's license, for which you
were already qualified. (Put the onus on him. Makes
him look bad when you cc the letter to the Sec of State)

Let him know you are without a valid driver's license
because of his refusal to issue one to you. (More
pressue on him), and ask for a written response within
20 days.

I'm the kind who would drive around with an expired DL,
and duke it out with the court if I were ever stopped,
using the TicketSlayer procedures.

You asked for feedback, but because you already agreed
to their terms, you are under their contract.

Can't fault you at all for trying. You have advanced
youself on the learning curve.

Just my POV

Originally Posted by mnchicago

HenryBowman:

What do you mean "copy" the license? What do you
have to show anyone if/once you do "copy" the DL,
the police, for example?

How can one "novate" an issued DL. I tried writing
over my signature, after issue, but that does not work.

One can novate anything they want.

Write up a paper, giving them notice that your true name is (Spell correctly) and that any signature is only offered without recourse, no liability assumed, and no value assured, as shown on the "LICENSE".

Then put your Registered Mail number on it, record it at the county recorders office, and have a third party mail it by Registered Mail for you to the head of your state's DMV.

This is just what I would do if I were in your shoes. Not advising you to do anything.

Henry Franklin

[mnchicago]

Okay.

Excuse my density here. If one were to do that, my Q
still remains, what happens in the event of being pulled
over?

Just accept a ticket, and then bring the novation to court at ticket time?

I do not always connect the dots easily.

Of course I understand you are not advising anyone, or
me, to do anything. I am simply interested in learning
about those things which are always effective at source,
and not merely dealing with symptoms.

Does it work?

[Akira]

Excellent advice once again HB !

The registered novation is a definate asset to ones portfolio.

During a discussion I had with the local Chief of Police (an old high school friend), he told me that the District Attorney can, (without court order or approval) give notice to the local police departments, that you are to be left alone.

(IMHO) being issued an invitation (ticket) to chat with the local DA and court is to your advantage. Use the opportunity to confront them directly, with your expertly defended registered docs. You can squeeze the DA to issue the order to leave you alone. You can also petition the judge for some form of declaratory judgement, or you can go in as a court of competent jurisdiction, and serve your own orders upon the court.

Either way, you want them to believe you welcome the opportunity to confront them, and waste their time, effort, and money, so do it with a smile !


For HIS Glory,
Akira

[Livefire]

HB and Akira.....

You got my wheels crankin' in the old noggin! Excellent feedback!!!!