Money Money Money

[Levi Philos]

Read the two Dr Popp paperbacks that have been digitized.

Money - Bona Fide or Non Bona Fide
& The Cookie Jar

They are found at all three of the first three links above.
Larry Becraft has only the first one posted to his site.

The William Gouge 1833 report to "Old Hickory" Jackson is posted at the first site. Just use "Gouge" as a search term.

The Reigel materials are well worth plowing through.
http://www.newapproachtofreedom.info/

I am presently working on a book about Scotch banking in the 1800s. Not as stable as Hayek implied in his "Denationalization" book - which was quoted by George Selgin in his 1988 book on free-banking.

Rothbard told the truth in his debunking of the myth of Scotch bank stability. Rothbard only fell a bit short of exposing the entire myth.

Levi Philos

[Levi Philos]

JW Smith has made some significant observations on the money topic.

You can read three of his books free and online or as downloadable documents:

http://www.ied.info/books.html

Money is to the physical economy as a map is to the physical geography. If you were offered a map of Minnesota and told to travel I-35w, you would laugh and tell the person offering the advice that the bridge was missing and the map wrong. But the money system fails and everybody gets all excited.

Stupid design - That's all.

This money system belongs in the dust-bin of history along with the flat-earth maps.

Levi Philos

[Levi Philos]

The name "Carol Brouillet" may not ring any bells with you, but how about "Deception Dollar?"

Carol Brouillet invented the deception dollar and marketed it.

This page is a little dated and no-where as complete as the links I provided earlier - anyway, Carol Brouillet on "Community Currency."

http://www.communitycurrency.org/

[mrg]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

Money is an extension of speech by means of symbols and contracts by which humans are enabled the exchange of real things by proxy.

Money is not a *thing*

Gold and silver coin are as much symbolic as any other money symbol - the extra imaginative value ascribed to precious metal coins is due to their anti-counterfeiting nature.

You need to look at the near 600 year usage of tally sticks as money in England and ask why such an otherwise useless item was accepted and used over such a long period of time. The answer is that the issuance and collection in taxes process was fairly clear and understandable - coupled to a very good anti-counterfeiting mechanism.

http://www.complementarycurrency.org/materials.php
http://www.altruists.org/downloads/by_subject/money/
http://www.reinventingmoney.com
http://tinyurl.com/5zror

search Narayana Kocherlokota and "Money is Memory" - I was reaching the exact same conclusion from my own study and reflection when I found his piece. That any particular money symbol - whether it is a coin, a piece of paper or an electronic digital entry - is a socially accepted mnemonic device.

Levi Philos

That is all well and good, but, is any such system beneficial to mankind in general operational?

Sherman was opposed to "the Evils of a Fluctuating Medium of Exchange," and in his caveat illustrates those evils.

Tally Sticks, according to commentary by the producers of The Money Masters, are to be considered a decent system.

Should the value of money be allowed to fluctuate, and should the fluctuation be controlled by those who have a vested interest in and the means for controlling the particulars of an elastic currency, or a fluctuating medium of exchange, through flooding the economy with devalueing paper, or withdrawing it to suit the needs of gargantuan global commercial business conglomerates?

And ultimately, what does back and prop up the system?

Energy?

Human Capital?

Is this the nature of the beast or not?

[Levi Philos]

I've got to get off to work PDQ, but a quick and dirty:

Your question: "And ultimately, what does back and prop up the system?

Energy?

Human Capital?"

Seems to imply that you presume there is only one good format - i.e. - a natural monopoly.

My presumptions include the presumption that no natural monopoly exists.

Thus, the answer is found in competing monetary systems. When the people have choice, they can spread risk and cost among several.

If people are using ALD notes, E-Gold, fed notes, Ithaca Hours and all of these are collateralizing promissory notes by recording and hypothecating any/all/or various promises to create and deliver value in the future, then my presumption (Hayek) is people will choose the system of lowest extractive cost with good stability.

With a monopoly, there is much temptation to cheat. Laws may be passed and watchers hired to oversee the banks, but soon the watchers will be corrupted. Then what? Hire watchers to watch the watchers?

With competition in systems, fraud within the system becomes an overhead cost. It becomes cost effective to watch yourself lest your competitor take away your business.

Levi Philos

[mrg]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

I've got to get off to work PDQ, but a quick and dirty:

Your question: "And ultimately, what does back and prop up the system?

Energy?

Human Capital?"

Seems to imply that you presume there is only one good format - i.e. - a natural monopoly.

My presumptions include the presumption that no natural monopoly exists.

Thus, the answer is found in competing monetary systems. When the people have choice, they can spread risk and cost among several.

If people are using ALD notes, E-Gold, fed notes, Ithaca Hours and all of these are collateralizing promissory notes by recording and hypothecating any/all/or various promises to create and deliver value in the future, then my presumption (Hayek) is people will choose the system of lowest extractive cost with good stability.

With a monopoly, there is much temptation to cheat. Laws may be passed and watchers hired to oversee the banks, but soon the watchers will be corrupted. Then what? Hire watchers to watch the watchers?

With competition in systems, fraud within the system becomes an overhead cost. It becomes cost effective to watch yourself lest your competitor take away your business.

Levi Philos

No, I do not mean for you to think that I presume there is only one good
format - i.e. - a natural monopoly.

I only experience what we have now.

I agree with your statement:

With a monopoly, there is much temptation to cheat.

Laws may be passed and watchers hired to oversee the banks, but soon the watchers will be corrupted.

Then what?

Hire watchers to watch the watchers?

Is this what we have now?

How are you going to get rid of it?

I am always very happy when you post here.

Thanks.

[Levi Philos]

Then, there is the history of money from Glyn Davies:
http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/llyfr.html

With the Comparative Chronology one of the more interesting sub-pages: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/amser/chrono.html

And here is his links page: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/local.html

[Levi Philos]

The Kocherlakota document: "Money is Memory"

http://minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf

I have not checked whether this link is valid today.

LP

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

At least gold and silver have some actual physical utility. So did bundles of cotton and tobacco.

Yet this whole babylonian world is upside-down and backwards: Real is Crazy and Fake is Good.

At some point virtual reality will have to merge with actual reality...hopefully.

It never ceases to amaze how people are lost in a world of assumptions. I am involved in a (minor) case now where we are charged as being "of the the thing" ie- belonging to a house. Thats the definition of domestic, 'crops in the field'.

It's pure peasant logic- assuming people just stand still and 'have' a 'permanant character'. What happened to Time, and Space? This is idolatry, worship of images, this time contructed virtually.


Pray for a day when things are of us, and we are of the Lord.

[Levi Philos]

Coin Your Own Coins
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=30910