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  #31  
Old 04-14-2008, 07:53 AM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Another Definition of What Money Actually Is

No money system is the actual physical economy; the money system is to the actual physical economy as a road map is to the roads.

This economic system is now failing due to faulty design. That does not equate to the physical economy failing.

If you threw a road map into a burning fireplace, would you look out the window and expect the roads and surrounding geography to suddenly burst into flame?

A money system is actually an imaginative institution to help humans rationalize the distribution and ownership of the results of their labors.

Money is a special branch of language where by means of symbols and contracts real things are exchanged by proxy.

Any act of lying with money is an act of counterfeiting. The use of precious and semi-precious metals in money systems is an anti-counterfeiting (lie stopping) technique.

Levi Philos
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  #32  
Old 04-14-2008, 08:02 AM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Financing Public Projects; Utilities, Bridges, Etc

Society is a mutual support organization; nobody stands alone any more. (To the extent that you agree with this statement, you too are a socialist.)

But a screwed up monetary system is like so much sand in an automatic transmission. Just won't work as designed.

It starts in 1933 with the imposition of the fifth plank of the communist manifesto upon the people. The credit of the people was claimed to be property of the government, and the government in turn licensed banks to hypothecate the credit of the people into medium of exchange. This was a taking without (clear) recompense. Adjusting the books to reassign the credit back to people who cannot discharge their debts is essentially what the "redemption of the strawman" is all about. (redemption is a flawed reaction to a flawed money system)

Nobody ever said it simpler: Thomas Edison and Henry Ford on public bonds: http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperi...es/edison.html

My proposal titled "FINANCING PUBLIC UTILITIES USING GESELLIAN PRINCIPLES" as a reply to Edison and Ford appears in post #22 to this thread: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=68716
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2008, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Philos
Money is an extension of speech by means of symbols and contracts by which humans are enabled the exchange of real things by proxy.

Money is not a *thing*

Gold and silver coin are as much symbolic as any other money symbol - the extra imaginative value ascribed to precious metal coins is due to their anti-counterfeiting nature.

You need to look at the near 600 year usage of tally sticks as money in England and ask why such an otherwise useless item was accepted and used over such a long period of time. The answer is that the issuance and collection in taxes process was fairly clear and understandable - coupled to a very good anti-counterfeiting mechanism.


Money is "coin" and ONLY "coin." The etymology of money calls any assertion to the contrary "fraud" on its face. The history stretches back to far to carry that banner.

Especially considering England has bolstered the fiction of "paper" of being money so that it could go world wide in theft of other peoples precious metals. If precious metals were just "ideas" then why did they make such effort to pirate everyone else's. Ideas, if widely enough accepted becomes a reality. As in "hey, I sure wish there was something that was has a lasting quality that could be accepted at times when I don't have things to barter of need for those who I wish to barter with that have things that I need."

Again, the etymology of money calls any assertion to the contrary "fraud" on its face.

Don't be victims of verbicide. The older etymology dictionaries tell the tale. Be cautious of dictionaries post 186?. The beginning of fraud began.

"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." ~ Philip K. **** 1928-1982
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Truth
There is no foundation or support for "persons" in the English language, or in the rules of grammar of the English language, any more than it is for one's name to be "correctly" and "properly" spelled IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brother 192
What on Earth are you referring to when you say "Rules of grammar?" I have no idea what argument you trying to make. I also therefore have no idea what you are referring to in my essay.
"To hold a pen is to be at war." Voltaire

Last edited by Soldier of Truth : 05-12-2008 at 12:53 AM.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Truth
Money is "coin" and ONLY "coin."


Coins made of Silver?
Coins of gold?
Coins of copper?
Brass?
Tin?

All of these at one time or another have been used in money systems.

George Selgin documents how coin shortages in England were solved when button makers (buttons of the time were often brass) converted their presses to coinage purposes. The presses were steam pistons and the coins some alloy of copper.

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~selgin

I didn't check today, but the documentation was previously available from the front page of his website.

Levi Philos
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  #35  
Old 05-16-2008, 09:33 AM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Truth
Money is "coin" and ONLY "coin."

Here is a thread on the Gold is Money dot info site about coinage machines, coinage metals, and significant information on casino chips:

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=30910

And here, some guys in England started coining their own coins: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=265857

Mediocrats replies (accurately IMO) "Governments simply demand a monopoly on the right to counterfeit, which they exercise by the day, the hour, the minute. And the public is forced to accept it."
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2008, 10:55 AM
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Grammar & style are NOT strawman theories!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Truth
There is no foundation or support for "persons" in the English language, or in the rules of grammar of the English language, any more than it is for one's name to be "correctly" and "properly" spelled IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brother 192
What on Earth are you referring to when you say "Rules of grammar?" I have no idea what argument you trying to make. I also therefore have no idea what you are referring to in my essay.
"To hold a pen is to be at war." Voltaire

Last edited by Soldier of Truth : 05-18-2008 at 11:08 AM.
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  #37  
Old 05-18-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Philos
Coins made of Silver?
Coins of gold?
Coins of copper?
Brass?
Tin?

All of these at one time or another have been used in money systems.

George Selgin documents how coin shortages in England were solved when button makers (buttons of the time were often brass) converted their presses to coinage purposes. The presses were steam pistons and the coins some alloy of copper.

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~selgin

I didn't check today, but the documentation was previously available from the front page of his website.

Levi Philos


Precious metals. BUT, in "this" union of states, coins of gold and silver. I qualify my statement based on the origin of the word "money." Which is a derivative or int is a derivative of it. "Monetary" is also. And tracing the history back to Rome and the Roman goddess Juno shows it to be silver and gold. Which is the origin and history of "lawful money" here in this union of states.

Although what you've listed and say is true, they aren't money, nor were they "money." They were "media of exchange" that people now having been exposed to the term "money" now identify those things as "money." There are all kinds of things that have been used as media of exchange. Sea shells; livestock, precious stones. But, the "fact" is "money" as revealed by the etymological origin is precious metals.

I never said that man can't take an original idea and debase it, or bastardize it. That's done all the time. One of the things I try to look for is the motive behind actions. Especially ones of such a drastic change like that which has developed in the custom and practice of such a long period of time. The acceptance of gold and silver as the highest form of value, that it was protected in warehouses by warehouseman; who became known as bankers; who as proof of storage issued receipts, also known as bills, so that its owner could redeem them when they wanted their property back; to now those pieces of paper, those receipts now being money. That property never returned; the same warehouseman promoting that the valuable thing that he was hired to protect and keep safe, is now worthless; but not mentioning that he's got huge supplies of it himself.

If its all the same, then why don't those making the claim practice what they speak?

That's one part. The next is no matter what has been used before, in "this" union of states, and the so-called law that was purportedly constructed as the "law of the land," the unit of the money of account is "dollar." And a dollar is "factually" a unit of weight of measurement. (See Act of April 2, 1792, 1 Stat. 246 § 9) The origin of the dollar's history is just as fascinating and telling. "Lawful" money in "this" union of states is gold and silver. And ANYONE asserting of enforcing different is committing fraud, assisting in committing fraud, or both. To see it for yourself one has to research negotiable instruments and securities. Once you do, you see that ALL paper are contracts. A draft is a contract; a check is a contract; a promissory not is a contract. And ALL are promises to pay. Even so-called "orders" are promises to pay, although "classified" differently.

There are no amount of guns, coercion, or threats, or lies, that are going to change the factual meanings of these words. They will always be what they are, no matter how successful the ignorance induced becomes. It only establishes the fact of tyrants, liars, the scared, the bullied, or the ignorant.

Money by decree, is decreed fraud.
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Grammar & style are NOT strawman theories!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Truth
There is no foundation or support for "persons" in the English language, or in the rules of grammar of the English language, any more than it is for one's name to be "correctly" and "properly" spelled IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brother 192
What on Earth are you referring to when you say "Rules of grammar?" I have no idea what argument you trying to make. I also therefore have no idea what you are referring to in my essay.
"To hold a pen is to be at war." Voltaire
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2008, 06:06 AM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Dead Sea Scrolls: http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp/edu...erscroll.shtml
"In the fortress which is in the Vale of Achor, forty cubits under the steps entering to the east: a money chest and it [sic] contents, of a weight of seventeen talents." So begins the first column of the Copper Scroll, one of the most intriguing, and baffling, scrolls to be found among the collection known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Sounding like something out of an Indiana Jones movie, the text of the Copper Scroll (3Q15) describes vast amounts of buried treasure.

It was found in 1952 in Cave 3 at Khirbet Qumran on the shores of the Dead Sea, one of the few scrolls to be discovered in the place where it had lain for nearly 2,000 years."


United Kingdom; 1978-1982: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...8/may/list.htm
"Mildenhall (Cunetio) Treasure Trove: implications of Court of Appeal's ruling on gold and silver content of treasure trove objects In October 1978, two treasure hunters unearthed over 56,000 Roman coins from underneath Mildenhall monument. The two were originally charged with defacing an ancient monument, but were acquitted. As the hoard was discovered within the liberties of the Duchy of Lancaster, they were claimed as "treasure" and therefore property of the Crown. However, this file discussed the implications of a Court of Appeal ruling which stated that hoards must be of a high percentage of gold or silver in order to be considered "treasure". The Mildenhall hoard was sent to the British Museum for examination and this file outlines the various twists and turns in this case."

There are more English court cases revealed about this exact problem at the link.

This type of thing is highly amusing to me. People have been making the same error over and over for thousands of years - the error seems obvious to me, yet current correspondents continue to support the error.

The error is insisting that only precious metal coinage are valid forms of money. The coins get buried somewhere and certificates of title circulate instead of the actual coin.

These certificates of title are (in my opinion) the actual money that serves as medium of exchange, but then the error gets compounded when the warehouseman insist that the coins be left in the warehouse and a clearance mechanism be set up to clear Accounts Receivable against Accounts Payable (standard bookkeeping mechanisms today).

My point is that if you can write a warehouse receipt against coin, you can write a warehouse receipt against grain or lumber or pork bellies or human labor, and you can stop worrying about the cache of coin. Things really don't work that way anyway so why continue doing the same thing over and over?

Levi Philos
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2008, 07:53 AM
Levi Philos Levi Philos is offline
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Perth Mint problems and Coinage Machines

The reader who is truly interested in coinage in general and especially silver will be interested in the series by Jason Hommel on the problems with the Perth Mint of Australia.

http://www.silverstockreport.com/2008/perth5.html

It appears the Mint has presold about a years production at last year's price. With the cost of fuel (mining requires a lot of fuel), it might prove difficult to fill their contracts. Another observer posted that the Perth Mint is insured by Lloyds of London and this problem along with the derivatives problem could bring Lloyds down.

Here is a thread on coining your own coins:
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=30910

Last edited by Levi Philos : 06-07-2008 at 07:55 AM.
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  #40  
Old 06-10-2008, 02:08 PM
jetgraphics jetgraphics is offline
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Money, funny munny, and not money at all

Though most people use the word "dollar" when referring to Federal Reserve notes, FRNs are not dollars. Ask any judge to rule that a paper note is a dollar and he will demur. No, FRNs are worthless paper.

Though FRNs are "legal tender", they are not lawful money.

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

Recapping, a unit dollar is a silver coin containing at least 3/4
ounce (troy) of silver. A one ounce gold coin is equivalent to 20
silver dollars (per Coinage Act of 1792). To complicate things, the
Congress demonetized silver in 1873 (See William Jennings Bryan's
"Cross of Gold" speech for the public's take on the scam.) Once silver
was demonetized, and the money supply shrank, there was economic chaos
for the last quarter of the 19th century, and helped instigate the
acceptance of an elastic currency, known as the "Federal Reserve Act"
of 1913.

As originally enacted (see Title 12 USC sec. 411), a Federal Reserve
note was a promise (obligation) to pay face value, on demand. In 1933,
the Congress repudiated that promise. Since 1933, no instrumentality
of the Federal Reserve corporation nor the U.S. Treasury will redeem
notes with lawful money.

So why didn't Congress dissolve in bankruptcy, in 1933?

Well, the creditor is not stupid. If the Congress dissolved the U.S.
corporation, there's nothing to grab. Even Washington, District of
Columbia reverts back to Maryland state. The solution was clever :
make Congress trustees of the bankruptcy - - - like making foxes the
guardians of the chicken coop.

Since trusteeship is the highest obligation recognized in law, and
supersedes all others, Congress no longer bothered with job #1
(Declaration of Independence) - securing the private property rights
of the people. In its place, Congress concocted the socialist solution
- make the American people underwriters of the bankruptcy, via Social
Security. That's what the Federal Insurance Contribution Act really
does. It makes all participants into "Human resources" who have
pledged themselves and their property as surety on those pesky
worthless paper notes.

NOW, the FRNs became YOUR obligation, and under the law of notes, you
could not object to their tender.

Why is that important to know?

"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection
thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305

Before FICA/Social Security, free Americans could object to the tender
of notes instead of lawful money (gold or silver coin). After FICA/
Social Security, serfs could no longer object.

In case you are unaware, ALL RELIGIONS condemn usury. (Ezekiel 18:13
KJV defines it as a capital offense). Usury is not excessive interest,
but ANY FEE, in money, for the use / loan of money. And for those who
prefer a logical argument, usury is impossible to pay in a finite
money token system (like America's constitutional gold/silver coin).
The reason is simple. Though individual contracts for usury appear
benign, the total aggregate usury creates a debt (principle and
interest) that exceeds the sum total of all money tokens. In short, a
proportion of debtors must default (and lose collateral) simply
because the money does not exist.

Aren't impossible contracts illegal, immoral and stupid?
Sigh. Congress has no monopoly on gross stupidity.

And, no, Congress can't just "print up some money". The Constitution
says so.

Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power
...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and
fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution.
No State shall
... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and
silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any
... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...

What few realize is that Congress never had the power to CREATE money.
If it did, why would it need the power to borrow it? In fact, what we
perceive as "munny", is not money, at all. It's all debt. In essence,
it's an extension of credit, at usury.

The "sad truth" is that the obligation to pay is denominated in
dollars (gold or silver), but we haven't used dollars since 1933.
(Good ole FDR stole all the lawful money from the "free Americans" and
gave them worthless notes. What a great man!)

Let's relate the debt in terms of lawful money (gold or silver).

If we use the Coinage Act of 1792 as our basis, a 40 trillion "dollar"
private debt means that debtors have to find :
2,000,000,000,000 ounces of gold bullion to stamp into coin, or
30,000,000,000,000 ounces of silver bullion to stamp into coin.

The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky, claims that
present gold holdings amount to 147.3 million ounces.

At $20 dollars per ounce of gold (Coinage Act of 1792), all that gold
translates to 2.9 billion dollars.

See the problem?
An obligation to pay 40 Trillion, with only enough bullion for 2.9
billion dollars (gold).

What if we "acquired" the whole world's supply of gold?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
"At the end of 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined
totaled 145,000 tonnes."
1 tonnes = 35,273.9619 ounces (avoirdupois)
World Gold supply = 5,114,724,475.5 ounces. (5 Billion)
We need 2 trillion ounces !

(Or if we only count the 9.4 Trillion "national debt", we need 470 000 000 000 ounces. 470 billion.)

What about silver?
According to the Silver Institute, world supply of silver in 2004 was
about 880 million ounces. If America "acquired" the world's silver, it
would only amount to $1,066,666,666.67 (1 billion, roughly)

D'Oh! We need 30 trillion ounces of silver.

Why hasn't the whole economic scam collapsed?

We, as human resources, are voluntary slaves, whose person and
property are pledged as collateral. And via socialist taxation and
interest charges, our working lives are spent enriching those who are
at the top of the usury pyramid. These parasites live the "good life"
while we spend the majority of our working lives for their benefit.

Don't expect any statesman, politician or law to save your bacon.

The Constitution forbids States from passing any ... Law impairing the
Obligation of Contracts.
You entered into a legally binding compact with usurers (abominations
proscribed by all religions), so you're out of luck.

One possible solution - leave "voluntary" national socialism and
usury.

If Americans stopped participating in Socialist Insecurity and
canceled all contracts for usury or with usurers, the scam would
cease. Not only would usurers be ruined, but the Congress would lose
99% of its power to meddle in our affairs. (You would be amazed at the
POWER granted to Congress by your consent, via your account with
Social Security.)

That's why no candidate for public office will ever dare mention that
(a) Social Security is an abomination, (b) there is no possibility of
a "balanced budget", since there are NO DOLLARS in circulation, and
(c) if elected, HE'S A STOOGE for the usurers who persecute us.

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, no recipient of bribery
(entitlements are nothing but bribery) will bite the hand that feeds
them. Worse, millions will gladly sell themselves and their
grandchildren into eternal servitude to the usurers who hold the reins
of power, cycle us through each economic boom / bust, take our labor
and property, and merely want us to be grateful that they allow us to
regrow our skin after being "skinned alive".

Recommendations for the short term:
Wise Ant saith: gather your supplies for the impending "cruel winter"
and hide it from the Gestapo Grasshoppers
who will compel you to share it with them.
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