1oz. will always be 1oz. - A discussion of substance & the Notes that pertain to it.

[aksis]

In another thread, a discussion of what many call "lawful money" aka, gold and silve, and Notes that are now being used as money started.

To bring it into scope in this thread:

Originally Posted by Ice

1 oz. will always be 1 oz. But the devaluation is of the note representing that metal and not the metal itself.

If there were no note representing the metal how would it be devalued?

If the note refers to a weight then there can be no change of its value. Rather then a Dollar, a Note that is a 1oz. silver note was what I had in mind.

Originally Posted by Ice

The fact that there is less of the metal would only make it increase in value.

There is a set amount of Gold or silver on Earth... to only way this could lessen is that it was shot into space or something. The ammount never increases or decreeses.

The amount of People has increased, and so would we portion equaly all gold and silver, the equal portion has diminished.

The value of something is proportinate to its usefulness, raw gold and silver isn't that useful. Pots and pans are and they are made from steel.

In a certian situation, 1oz. gold = 1oz. water.

Originally Posted by Ice

The devaluation occurs when there are more notes printed to represent the metal. By eliminating the notes that represent the metal from the equation, the metal increases in value as less metal becomes available. It can only be truth that it is the note that decreases in value because it takes more notes to purchase the metal. The metal increases in value as the population increases thereby causing more demand for it. Make sense?

This only makes sense if the Note isn't based on weight. Correct me, but wern't the first silver certificates based on weight?

Originally Posted by Ice

Putting an end to private banks controllng our economy and putting that power back into the hands of the people (through congress) would be a great start. And much more follows on the heels of that.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Ice

Remember that wealth is not defined by how much gold or silver you own. Wealth is the total of your possessions. If you own land you have wealth. Once you have purchased land does not the metal change hands? And when that person purchases something... does it not change hands again?

Why base it on metal, I like the idea of the GPN backing the value of the Notes, yet it needs to be under the control of the People via Congress and not under the private coproration Federal Reserve Bank.

With the steel>pot example,

I make 50 pots, I only need 1, I put 49 into stock and get Notes in return,
Someone else had 50 bags of flower and puts 40 into stock and gets notes in return,

I tender Notes for for 2 bags of flower,
the one who got notes for flower tenders Notes for 1 pot,

I didn't need the 49 other pots, they have no value to me, nor did the one with the flower need all 50 bags at that time and it may have spoiled before it could be used... so substance is traded for notes and notes are traded for substance.

Originally Posted by Ice

One of the changes sought is the abolishment of theft of the peoples wealth.

Agreed, also the that the body and/or furture labor of the people being pleged aginst the debts of the U.S. or being seen as a part of the GNP.

Originally Posted by Ice

If the tax revenues now forced upon the people were substantially reduced (completely wiped away with the exclusion of lawful excise and "head" tax) how much more would a "note" be worth? This is one point that most people overlook. The less demand for revenue by the government the more valuable a note could be.

We have yet to clarify the Note and how its value is set... lets wait on this contemplation till this point.

Sure a 1oz. silver note is worth 1oz. and this is set, yet this is not the Note of gereral circulation at this time and I don't see it becoming one in the future due to the fact that there is a limited amount of silver.

Silver can't represent the sum of non-silver substance in existance as easly as a Note could.

Further, testing the raw metals purity is a huge problem.. gold coins with lead plugs was a problem with gold coins, do you have a test kit for metal handy? Should everyone have to have such a thing?

Originally Posted by Ice

Replacing the current system with one based upon the simple facts that each man is endowed with freedom and the right to own (and do as he pleases with) property is a plan in itself. Wouldn't you want to replace the current system with something like that?

This already exists, its simply that many people are ignorant of it... like I said, in reality, its all barter. A standars for barter is what needs to be worked out.

People trade paper and ink for bread, or bread for paper and ink... in this light, it is substance for substance.

When you start calling the paper and ink Notes and Dollars, you start speaking in terms of legal fiction.

Lets just draft better fiction. The Federal Reserve is foul, yet the idea of Notes is not the problem... its all the middle men saying that they should get a cut for their service... this service should be a public service and all it will take is drafting the system to govern the exchange of substance for notes and notes for substance, then some book keeping... the books would be auditable/viewable by the People and maintained by public servents.