Treasury Bond's...

[Grench]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

18 USC sec 471

I already have a letter of intent to the treasury. If they don't respond i'll send a affidavit of support and an anwser from the federal proscutor from THIS state.

I have an anwser from the proscutor in a case (I modifed it because, the person that has it filed feels she may be in danger if, this were to go public) that, stipulates the USA has NO INTEREST in her property. I got a lien and a "friendly" (like the army) judgement against her property. The mortage company has sence drop the case and no other company has bothered her.

So, what does this say about "securities" and "obligation's"? That their ARE NONE. Everything is in commerce and everything in commerce (i.e. bus train, YOU!) are CONTRACTS. If I rebut the "presumtions" BEFORE I do what I do what do you think they're going to do?

Suck my prick? More then likely. Make friends? They'd (and you) would prefer to shoot me.

Regards,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by clarkee

Does this same code apply to the Federal Reserve? If not then why?

As far as I know, this section also covers FRNs and other legal tender.

[aksis]

Originally Posted by Grench

Everything is in commerce and everything in commerce (i.e. bus train, YOU!) are CONTRACTS.

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

I am pretty sure about this, once the bond is "cashed", the account will be zeroed out. It dosn't matter if it is a copy or the original.

If someone comes in and tries to cash a bond (copy or original) with the same account number, there will have been a fraud... and fraud is a tort at common law. This common law is supporting the federal code shoonra cited.

§ 471. Obligations or securities of United States
Whoever, with intent to defraud, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

P.S.

Note there is no use of the word person here.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by aksis

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

I am pretty sure about this, once the bond is "cashed", the account will be zeroed out. It dosn't matter if it is a copy or the original.

If someone comes in and tries to cash a bond (copy or original) with the same account number, there will have been a fraud... and fraud is a tort at common law. This common law is supporting the federal code shoonra cited.

§ 471. Obligations or securities of United States
Whoever, with intent to defraud, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

P.S.

Note there is no use of the word person here.

Thier contracts OF (check Black Law's for reference to the word 'OF') law. If you pay a tax with a dollar and they tax you again for the same item does that zero out the hole stock? Ofcourse not. Contracts work the same way. If their "revised" they can be re-used for 'consumtion' if, the contract is in-fact binding to the stipulation of a "dollar"..


Legal tender is as good as a bail bond. You copy that and placed "legal tender per [cited]" wouldn't that bond be fraud? Fraud is caused by a 'stipulation' of law not a pervert truth. Truth is if, you commit fraud by using a copied bail bond your in as much trouble as I am for coping a contract made out to me! ALL the bonds (by government) are write-off's of the national debt! This is how they CREATE debt and 'currency' (i.e. movement, 'motion', commencment, i.e check the Black Law's dictionare for better reference) out of THIN AIR...

We can cited case's all day but, if the contract "stand's" as relief (i.e. I post my bail) then, the savings bond has no obligation for recovery if, the bank use's my TIN as they do their own employers. They tax the people they pay. I 'offer' relief where they is none. I'm just trying to get a point accross and ask for assitance. I called the treasury this morning and they said, they have no interest in my savings bond's if, i've been employed by the federal government (i.e. TIN number) to ask for relief against debt that, was "exempted" from their books the time they sent me the bond's.

So, not only did they say, I own them nothing but, she hinted that, the bond is exempted from their records as a clear off-set of bankrupt public offerings (better known as BPO)... I'd like to tell you about what she told me on how the millers bonds (under the Miller Act of 1934) was in-acted to "back" these very bonds we buy but, i'm short on time today to discuss it.

Any assitance is greatful....

Regards,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Grench]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

As far as I know, this section also covers FRNs and other legal tender.

Thats EXACTLY the word I was looking for: other. Savings bonds are 'exempt' from collection if, you'd like to cited such law that would be lovely! So, sence it is exempted from its finanical 'gain' how do I 'collect' or 'gain' something from an exemption OF law? I ask for the FACE VALUE of the bond. I give you dollars you give me CHECK's AND BALANCE's (check the consititutions for Check's and Balance's).

The ledger on a savings bond are only the tracking number (i.e. your TIN and "work" for the world market). You collect interest from international capital (check the S&P's. bonds were down by 3% this morning but, i have the face value of the exemption on the world market. so, how's paying me? the IMF? you guessed it!) and collateral 'interest'(s) [i.e. war, captializing "states(country) affair's", work margin's, and on and on and on]....

See what you can get for me, Shoonra, because you have LOT's of study ahead of you. The market speaks LOUD and CLEAR and HOW, WHERE, and WHEN the bonds have earned interest thur the world 'market'...

Ever hear the quote from bush, "... their so many people in africa WITHOUT birth certifcate's....?" People are dying and this dumb-f&%k talks about BC's?

Wake-up, people!


Regards,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Grench]

Give me what you got on the bond situation. Everyone has a "modification" IN law (where, how, and those that, THEY do business for) and I want to see if, you got anything on the bond thing.

What i've talked about hold's strong merit and would like a word or two from you on this course of redemption on savings bonds and the like.

Regards,
Phil
With Recourse

[aksis]

Grench, was that last post some kind of answer to these questions:

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

Again:

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

Christopher Theodore: Rhodes


P.S.

It sounds like a scam to me.

If you tried to tell me all that stuff and were trying to, say for example, by a used car from me with copies of this bond, I would not do it.

FRAUD, contracts, torts. Any trick or artifice employed by one person to
induce another to fall into an error, or to detain him in it, so that he may
make an agreement contrary to his interest. The fraud may consist either,
first, in the misrepresentation, or, secondly, in the concealment of a
material fact. Fraud, force and vexation, are odious in law. Booth, Real
Actions, 250. Fraud gives no action, however, without damage; 3 T. R. 56;
and in matters of contract it is merely a defence; it cannot in any case
constitute a new contract. 7 Vez. 211; 2 Miles' Rep. 229. It is essentially
ad hominem. 4 T. R. 337-8.

[Notorial dissent]

Originally Posted by Grench

What's up people? Back and full affect! I got a question on "copying" savings bonds. I have found NO LEGAL status or laws not permiting this "act" in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I bought two about a week ago and when I got it, it had no seal, no senstive marking, no water marks of any kind. I "bought" Series EE bonds.

Anyone got anything on this I might have overlooked?
Just 18 USC 471 - 489 counterfeiting.

It also depends a bit on what you mean by “copying”. In general the act of copying ANY Federal obligation is enough to activate the counterfeiting statutes. If, however, you want a reference copy you can get around it by copying them in B & W, copying the instrument either in considerably larger or smaller format. I will advise you that trying to do it at a copy shop is more than enough to get you tossed in the pokey if they see you, as they are liable if their machines are used illegally, and they will call the cops first and ask questions later.

EE paper bonds are purchased for half of face value, mature at 30 years, and cease to pay interest at that point.

Originally Posted by Grench

But look at it this way: are MUNICIPAL bonds any different then, "paying" with a savings bond when you get "bail" from the court? Ofcourse not! So, if you can copy THEIR bonds why can't we copy OUR bonds?
And why are you trying to claim apples are oranges, when they are not? A “‘financial” bond is in no way similar or the same thing as “bail bond”, which is in fact a surety(an insurance) that something will happen, in particular that a person will appear for a court hearing. A financial bond is for all intents and purposes a fancy IOU.

Look at the BC (birth certificate). If, you were "bound" to 'pay a debt' and you took the BC and your savings bond (EE does not come with watermarks or seals) copied them, had them certifed by the clerk of the court, had it appostiled by the state and the state department (or whatever agency you wanted to have those documents appostiled by) and served them to the court what do you think THEY would do?
You mean besides laugh at you, after having refused to do so in the first place?

Ofcourse, using a authicated BC is smarter if, you want to do it right.
A birth certificate by definition is an authenticated document.

I’m curious, why do think it would accomplish anything to contact the DOD about a lost bond?? Particularly as they do not have authority to issue bonds?

Originally Posted by Grench

I already have a letter of intent to the treasury. If they don't respond i'll send a affidavit of support and an anwser from the federal proscutor from THIS state.
And this has exactly what to do with copying a bond?

I have an anwser from the proscutor in a case (I modifed it because, the person that has it filed feels she may be in danger if, this were to go public) that, stipulates the USA has NO INTEREST in her property. I got a lien and a "friendly" (like the army) judgement against her property. The mortage company has sence drop the case and no other company has bothered her.
And why would they have an interest in a foreclosure unless it came under an FHA statute or some such, and the lender would still be the primary on the forclosure?

So, what does this say about "securities" and "obligation's"? That their ARE NONE. Everything is in commerce and everything in commerce (i.e. bus train, YOU!) are CONTRACTS. If I rebut the "presumtions" BEFORE I do what I do what do you think they're going to do?
No, but you do spout a lot of nonsense.

Suck my prick? More then likely. Make friends? They'd (and you) would prefer to shoot me.

Regards,
Phil
Without Recourse

[quote=Grench]Thats EXACTLY the word I was looking for: other. Savings bonds are 'exempt' from collection if, you'd like to cited such law that would be lovely! So, sence it is exempted from its finanical 'gain' how do I 'collect' or 'gain' something from an exemption OF law? I ask for the FACE VALUE of the bond. I give you dollars you give me CHECK's AND BALANCE's (check the consititutions for Check's and Balance's).
The only thing exempt about a savings bond is that their interest is “exempt” from state and local taxation, but not federal. The rest of this is gibberish.

The ledger on a savings bond are only the tracking number (i.e. your TIN and "work" for the world market). You collect interest from international capital (check the S&P's. bonds were down by 3% this morning but, i have the face value of the exemption on the world market. so, how's paying me? the IMF? you guessed it!) and collateral 'interest'(s) [i.e. war, captializing "states(country) affair's", work margin's, and on and on and on]...More gibberish.
.

See what you can get for me, Shoonra, because you have LOT's of study ahead of you. The market speaks LOUD and CLEAR and HOW, WHERE, and WHEN the bonds have earned interest thur the world 'market'...
General nastiness and ignorance.

Ever hear the quote from bush, "... their so many people in africa WITHOUT birth certifcate's....?" People are dying and this dumb-f&%k talks about BC's?
More gibberish.

Wake-up, people!


Regards,

[Grench]

[quote=Notorial dissent]It also depends a bit on what you mean by “copying”. In general the act of copying ANY Federal obligation is enough to activate the counterfeiting statutes. If, however, you want a reference copy you can get around it by copying them in B & W, copying the instrument either in considerably larger or smaller format. I will advise you that trying to do it at a copy shop is more than enough to get you tossed in the pokey if they see you, as they are liable if their machines are used illegally, and they will call the cops first and ask questions later.

EE paper bonds are purchased for half of face value, mature at 30 years, and cease to pay interest at that point.


I’m curious, why do think it would accomplish anything to contact the DOD about a lost bond?? Particularly as they do not have authority to issue bonds?

Originally Posted by Grench

Thats EXACTLY the word I was looking for: other. Savings bonds are 'exempt' from collection if, you'd like to cited such law that would be lovely! So, sence it is exempted from its finanical 'gain' how do I 'collect' or 'gain' something from an exemption OF law? I ask for the FACE VALUE of the bond. I give you dollars you give me CHECK's AND BALANCE's (check the consititutions for Check's and Balance's).
The only thing exempt about a savings bond is that their interest is “exempt” from state and local taxation, but not federal. The rest of this is gibberish.

The ledger on a savings bond are only the tracking number (i.e. your TIN and "work" for the world market). You collect interest from international capital (check the S&P's. bonds were down by 3% this morning but, i have the face value of the exemption on the world market. so, how's paying me? the IMF? you guessed it!) and collateral 'interest'(s) [i.e. war, captializing "states(country) affair's", work margin's, and on and on and on]...More gibberish.
.

See what you can get for me, Shoonra, because you have LOT's of study ahead of you. The market speaks LOUD and CLEAR and HOW, WHERE, and WHEN the bonds have earned interest thur the world 'market'...
General nastiness and ignorance.

Ever hear the quote from bush, "... their so many people in africa WITHOUT birth certifcate's....?" People are dying and this dumb-f&%k talks about BC's?
More gibberish.

Wake-up, people!


Regards,

Thank all of what you have done. I will retire with the idea you believe you some how "supreme" in your facts and will leave it at that. A dictator OF (Black Law ****-tionare 'reference') '****-tation' is the rule of your day.

I fail to state a claim so, again, thank you and have a fine day.

Regarsds,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Grench]

Originally Posted by aksis

Grench, was that last post some kind of answer to these questions:

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

Again:

Where are the terms of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the bonds?

What do you intend to do, or are contemplating doing with these copies?

Christopher Theodore: Rhodes


P.S.

It sounds like a scam to me.

If you tried to tell me all that stuff and were trying to, say for example, by a used car from me with copies of this bond, I would not do it.

Thier is NO MONEY (as we know it) in currculation from the federal reserve and then, you put the TRUE DEFINTION of what their doing right here and ASK ME WHERE THE CONTRACT I SIGNED? Read what you wrote, below.



FRAUD, contracts, torts. Any trick or artifice employed by one person to
induce another to fall into an error, or to detain him in it, so that he may
make an agreement contrary to his interest. The fraud may consist either,
first, in the misrepresentation, or, secondly, in the concealment of a
material fact. Fraud, force and vexation, are odious in law. Booth, Real
Actions, 250. Fraud gives no action, however, without damage; 3 T. R. 56;
and in matters of contract it is merely a defence; it cannot in any case
constitute a new contract. 7 Vez. 211; 2 Miles' Rep. 229. It is essentially
ad hominem. 4 T. R. 337-8.

Contracts IN tort is a crime in ITS SELF if, the claim is made WITH an action of/to damage. So, a tort claim in civil or criminal court is a RIGHT to damage me IN THE OPEN PUBLIC!???! INterest you? I'm sure it would. Didn't the englsih do that to their subjects in some historically time's? I'm sure you have read some.

Politics. The relics of the general counsel of rome. Have fun with the empire and its rule!

Long Live The King,
Phil
WITHout Any Recourse Of/To Rolyalty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royalties