Treasury Bond's...

[mrg]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

The Congress is entirely within their rights to delegate the “minting” of money if they so please, and they have done so by authorizing the Fed to issue currency on behalf of the Treasury.

Howso, precisely?

What "Congress?"

They seem to be short quite a few Representatives for one, and have thoroughly trashed the original intent of of the Constitution under color of "Amendment," for another, and have "delegated" their Powers to an executive dictatorship, leaving nothing but a propagandistic rubber stamp, for public relations "and for other purposes."

The "Fed" loans credits to the so called "Treasury" with your own very flesh, blood, bone, sinew and produce pledged as collateral.

Harvesting much of the investment of collateral is done through the threashing machine, and on the killing floor of blood war, some through corporate fascist mechanisms of vicious class warfare, some through penal warehousing of chattel, and speculative investment on the commercial paper generated, etc.

Have fun, I only have about thirty years left to serve in this hell hole, and I reckon I am in far better shape metaphysically then you will be for quite a long time.

Drink the blood they feed you with and enjoy the moment.

[Notorial dissent]

Originally Posted by psholtz

(1) What specifically has been held to be "constitutional" about the Federal Reserve? The practice of counterfeiting?
What has been held unconstitutional would be a better question. The Fed was created, authorized, and established by federal statute, and has been declared constitutional and legal by the Supreme and other courts over the years. Certainly, almost 100 years of existence deny any claim to the contrary. Certainly nothing you are addressing here. Counterfeiting implies the unauthorized production of something, please show an example of whatever you are referring to.

(2) Are you trying to say that there is no law forbidding the practice of counterfeiting?
Did you read what I wrote, obviously not.

(3) Why is it a big deal if I counterfeit $$, but it's not a big deal if the Federal Reserve counterfeit's $$? For one thing you are not authorized to produce currency, the Fed is, by law, so it is legal and not counterfeit, and is exactly what it purports to be.


(4) The Federal Reserve does not "mint" money; to my knowledge, it never has. The Federal Reserve counterfeits paper obligations.There are so many things wrong with this statement it is hard to know where to begin.

Your knowledge, oh well, that’s what you get for buying remaindered knowledge. (1)Minting is an inclusive term that can and does refer to the practice of minting coin and producing currency or script, specifically the production of money. (2)One cannot counterfeit what one is authorised and charged to do, so again your statement lacks merit.

Originally Posted by mrg

Howso, precisely?
By legislation, the Federal Reserve and Currency statutes primarily.

What "Congress?"
The one that passed the original Federal Reserve Act, 63rd I believe.

They seem to be short quite a few Representatives for one, and have thoroughly trashed the original intent of of the Constitution under color of "Amendment," for another, and have "delegated" their Powers to an executive dictatorship, leaving nothing but a propagandistic rubber stamp, for public relations "and for other purposes."
Nonsense. It was passed through regular channels and was the work of several years starting in 1908, before it ever reached passage. Since both houses had more than a sufficient quorum and a better than majority vote in the house and a majority vote in the senate it was legally passed and your blather is just that, myth and noise.

The "Fed" loans credits to the so called "Treasury" with your own very flesh, blood, bone, sinew and produce pledged as collateral.
More nonsense and myth and boring besides.

Harvesting much of the investment of collateral is done through the threashing machine, and on the killing floor of blood war, some through corporate fascist mechanisms of vicious class warfare, some through penal warehousing of chattel, and speculative investment on the commercial paper generated, etc.
Now you just gibber, but you do do it so well.

Have fun, I only have about thirty years left to serve in this hell hole, and I reckon I am in far better shape metaphysically then you will be for quite a long time.
Right, of course you do poor baby, life is just so awful, my heart just bleeds for you.

Drink the blood they feed you with and enjoy the moment.

And may God have mercy on your soul, for yours is a dark and dismal universe of your own making.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

Your knowledge, oh well, that’s what you get for buying remaindered knowledge. (1)Minting is an inclusive term that can and does refer to the practice of minting coin and producing currency or script, specifically the production of money. (2)One cannot counterfeit what one is authorised and charged to do, so again your statement lacks merit.

Regarding (2), of course the Fed is still counterfeiting.

That's what I'm telling you: the Fed simply has a government-granted monopoly on the practice of counterfeting. I'm asking you whether (a) you believe that is right and just; and (b) whether or not you think there should be laws forbidding the government from granting monopolies on the practice of counterfeiting.

All you've done is foolishly "re-defined" counterfeiting and you foolishly believe this "fixes" the problem.

Oh, we have a "murder" problem? OK... well, we've now legalized murder. It's not a crime anymore... there, that fixes the problem. Or possibly, oh we have a "murder" problem. OK, well let's call the practice of killing another person "flarf-floggle" ... there, that fixes the "murder" problem doesn't it?

This is sophistry of the highest order, and is a one-way ticket into Hell.

Seriously.

Still the question stands: INDEPENDENT of the Federal Reserve (pretend that the Fed doesn't and never did exist); now, should there be a law forbidding the government from granting a monopoly on the practice of counterfeiting federal obligations?

What say you?

[Notorial dissent]

Originally Posted by psholtz

Regarding (2), of course the Fed is still counterfeiting.

That's what I'm telling you: the Fed simply has a government-granted monopoly on the practice of counterfeting. I'm asking you whether (a) you believe that is right and just; and (b) whether or not you think there should be laws forbidding the government from granting monopolies on the practice of counterfeiting.
You really don’t read what is written do you? The Fed is carrying out a legally mandated function of the government, on behalf of the government. Why you insist on calling it a monopoly when it is a function of government, and therefore their option to determine how it is handled, and who does it. It is still done under mandate of law and in the government’s name. It is not and cannot be counterfeit since it is an authorized function of government, and carried out at the government’s order. So there is no question of right or wrong here. As to the granting of monopolies, is this something new you have just discovered? And since you are totally wrong to begin with this part of your argument is totally a waste. The actual notes are created by the Bureau of Printing and Engraving, not the Fed-so there is no way they could actually be considered to be counterfeiting in the first place, so do you now want to complain that the Bureau of Engraving is counterfeiting too?

All you've done is foolishly "re-defined" counterfeiting and you foolishly believe this "fixes" the problem.
I have redefined nothing, I have used the term as it is properly applied. You are the one who insists upon torturing it to justify your current rant.

Oh, we have a "murder" problem? OK... well, we've now legalized murder. It's not a crime anymore... there, that fixes the problem. Or possibly, oh we have a "murder" problem. OK, well let's call the practice of killing another person "flarf-floggle" ... there, that fixes the "murder" problem doesn't it?
Ah, now since you can’t come up with anything to justify an untenalbe position you now resort to totally off the wall and unrelated comparison,

This is sophistry of the highest order, and is a one-way ticket into Hell.
No, just your usual attempt to mangle a situation until there is no reality to it so that you can justify your particular fantasy of the moment.

Seriously.

Still the question stands: INDEPENDENT of the Federal Reserve (pretend that the Fed doesn't and never did exist); now, should there be a law forbidding the government from granting a monopoly on the practice of counterfeiting federal obligations?
Absent the Fed, we would be in the same situation we are now. The BEP would still be printing the currency we use, and mint would be coining the change we carry about with us, we would have an incredibly clumsy and costly financial system, in which there would be some super bank or banks acting as banker’s banks to issue out cash and change and facilitate the transfer of funds around the country.



What say you?

So, seriously, why don’t you find something else to obsess over, you've dug this hole deep enough.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

So, seriously, why don’t you find something else to obsess over, you've dug this hole deep enough.

Guy's, don't waste your time and energy keeping up with the owners (his masters) kids (incompendent by reason to "believe" or in other words pure insanity)... We might wake the old fart up (IMF/World Bank/International Peace Keeper) and cause many of you uncomfort in your personal lives.

Keep the peace, my people.

Regards,
Phil
Without Recourse