Treasury Bond's...

[Grench]

What's up people? Back and full affect! I got a question on "copying" savings bonds. I have found NO LEGAL status or laws not permiting this "act" in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I bought two about a week ago and when I got it, it had no seal, no senstive marking, no water marks of any kind. I "bought" Series EE bonds.

Anyone got anything on this I might have overlooked?

Regards.
Phil
Without Recourse

[aksis]

The thought crossed my mind that all the paper notes, bonds, securities, etc.. are simply a physical representation of various entries in a ledger.

The ledger is the authority back of any fiat Note, security, bond, etc...

[clarkee]

Originally Posted by Grench

What's up people? Back and full affect! I got a question on "copying" savings bonds. I have found NO LEGAL status or laws not permiting this "act" in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I bought two about a week ago and when I got it, it had no seal, no senstive marking, no water marks of any kind. I "bought" Series EE bonds.

Anyone got anything on this I might have overlooked?

Regards.
Phil
Without Recourse

Do you meaning copying them for your own records or something else. I have a Series I Savings Bond and it has watermarks all over it. You look at it from the front up against a light and there's an Indian on a horse. Also, if you turn it over and look at it from the rear you'll see the words US Treasury written.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by clarkee

Do you meaning copying them for your own records or something else. I have a Series I Savings Bond and it has watermarks all over it. You look at it from the front up against a light and there's an Indian on a horse. Also, if you turn it over and look at it from the rear you'll see the words US Treasury written.

Yes. It does have U.S. TREASURY in the background but, that IS NOT considered a "seal" or "watermark" (by legal defintion.) But, yes, I wanted to copy it. It looks like a check WITHOUT the watermarks.

Nothing usually about it but, I believe its because, the bond is marked at a "future par" (i.e. interest, i.e. i gave them 250$ so, they issued me a 500$ EE bond, i.e. "par" is a future return 'collateral based' bond's). But thats exactly what I want to do: copy MY bond. I havn't found one lick of evidence to say other wise.

Let me know what you think of this.

Regards,
Phil
With Recourse

[Grench]

Originally Posted by aksis

The thought crossed my mind that all the paper notes, bonds, securities, etc.. are simply a physical representation of various entries in a ledger.

The ledger is the authority back of any fiat Note, security, bond, etc...

But look at it this way: are MUNICIPAL bonds any different then, "paying" with a savings bond when you get "bail" from the court? Ofcourse not! So, if you can copy THEIR bonds why can't we copy OUR bonds?

Look at the BC (birth certificate). If, you were "bound" to 'pay a debt' and you took the BC and your savings bond (EE does not come with watermarks or seals) copied them, had them certifed by the clerk of the court, had it appostiled by the state and the state department (or whatever agency you wanted to have those documents appostiled by) and served them to the court what do you think THEY would do?

Ofcourse, using a authicated BC is smarter if, you want to do it right.

Regards,
Phil
With Recourse

[Grench]

I got something that, may be more powerful then, I thought! Check out mikah2k with something written on off-setting debt: http://www.suijuris.net/forum/taxati...t-program.html

I took one sentence: "... Payment agencies prepare and certify payment vouchers to FMS and disbursing officials at other federal agencies that are non-Treasury disbursed (such as the Department of Defense), who then disburse payments...." and i've got a hardliner question for all: Has anyone seen the anything on the treasury site ( www.treasuryhunt.com ) stating if, you lose a bond/bonds to contact the DoD (department of defense)? If your scared i'll understand but if you find it on their site PLEASE, post it! I can't seem to find it for some reason. Why? Look here: http://fms.treas.gov/debt/dmexmpt.pdf Nothing but, EXEMPTION's!

But the sentence above if, it is the case then, the DoD has been issuing 'war bonds' (like, the postal stamp's in school to "support" the war at the peak of world war one [1])) has been fueling themselve's with the public 'off-set' and create a legistlative war "divison" we migth not know of.

Any legistlation been passed by congress that, we havn't taken a closer look at sence the scandle of a few generals a year's back? Need some feedback on this.

Reagrds,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Shoonra]

There is a law, classified as a counterfeiting law, against the copying of any federal obligation, which would include Savings Bonds and Treasury Bonds. However, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for making one or a few conventional xerox copies for his own files, primarily to have the serial numbers and other details in case he must apply for replacements if the originals are destroyed. The prohibition, such as it is, is aimed at makinig copies that are used or intended to pass as the originals.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

There is a law, classified as a counterfeiting law, against the copying of any federal obligation, which would include Savings Bonds and Treasury Bonds. However, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for making one or a few conventional xerox copies for his own files, primarily to have the serial numbers and other details in case he must apply for replacements if the originals are destroyed. The prohibition, such as it is, is aimed at makinig copies that are used or intended to pass as the originals.

Thats just great, Shoonra. So, tell me where I can find these "classifed" law's? If you DO NOT KNOW and have NO PROOF then, please, this is not for you and you should respond when you have EVIDENCE of such finding.

Otherwise, have a fine day, fair lady (Note: English spoken courting [in love] and 'court(s) of state's in sovereign' {'administrative' street thuggery!} of the common law of the 14, 15, 16, and 17th century archive.) ....

Regards Without,
Phil
Without Recourse

[Shoonra]

18 USC sec 471

[clarkee]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

18 USC sec 471

Does this same code apply to the Federal Reserve? If not then why?