Swiss Banks

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Livefire

That is true because those banks dont wish to deal with US BS. So they turn away US passport holders.

Yes, that's true.

What a lot of Americans do, when they want to open international bank accounts, is open a "banking passport" from some other nation.. usually some podunk country in Asia or Africa. You can buy them in any name you wish (oftentimes) and use it to open your banking account in the foreign jurisdiction and do business there.

They're not cheap though.. They can be as much as $20,000 per passport, I understand.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

You cannot convey assets fraudulently (stealth) and be judgment proof.

But if it's your asset, your property, what's to stop you from conveying it -- or doing whatever you wish w/ it -- however you please? :-)

[andrewmitch]

Fradulent transfers is something to be careful of. But I don't believe that means making the account or asset stealth. What I believe it refers to is let's say you have a party and some event occured that has made you possibly liable for a lawsuit (eg someone slips in your shop and break a hip). Then, let's say on Monday Or after a suit is filed) you place your house and all of your assets in a Trust or LLC in an attempt to hide your assets. That is a fraudulent transfer. But if you made the transfer at least a year (I think) Prior to the event you are OK. I'll have to dig into this more but I don't there is any way that attempting to make your assets stealthy (as long as you are in good standing) is fraudulent.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

if it's your asset, your property, what's to stop you from conveying it

Absolutely nothing. If you can physically achieve something its a fact

"fraudulent conveyance" is just someone else's claim. that's not your job, let others earn their pay diligently.

[David Merrill]

Conveying a parcel of land into a trust for $21 is the classical example of a fraudulent conveyance. However if you price it, even in gold at close to its true value in the marketplace, that is fine.

[andrewmitch]

I believe that if you put your money in a Swiss Bank and Invest that money in a non-Swiss acct (eg I don't think you could do Swiss Francs) or non-US account or in a Swiss Annuity the money is tax free.

I also believe that creditors can not get to your money. Not even the IRS. And not even if you tell them about the account (which if you go to court you will should them about your hidden assets as you will be under oath and it is fraudulent).

I am trying to contact a Swiss Bank directly and have them confirm in writing what the rules are. I am also trying to get a US attorney and CPA to double and triple confirm.

But so far it seems as though this method would both avoid taxes (from the interest earned) and protect you from creditors.

This would be much simplier and much more effective than other asset protection vehicles plus you get the tax savings.

And there are local Swiss bank branches you could work with (ie you don't have to set this up remotely).

At the very least, this would be far better than leaving your money in FRN's and in a US Bank Account. There is no worse place to keep your money giving FRN's depcreciate, you pay taxes on the interest, and anyone can get to your money (eg IRS, creditors, Homeland Security).

I have also heard some good stuff about Swiss Trusts which I'll explore later. And I also heard about Safety Deposit boxes which could be far better than a US Bank Safety Deposit box since Homeland Security can take anything in a safety deposit box in a US bank at anytime.

I'll keep researching this.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by andrewmitch

I believe that if you put your money in a Swiss Bank and Invest that money in a non-Swiss acct (eg I don't think you could do Swiss Francs) or non-US account or in a Swiss Annuity the money is tax free.

I also believe that creditors can not get to your money. Not even the IRS. And not even if you tell them about the account (which if you go to court you will should them about your hidden assets as you will be under oath and it is fraudulent).

I am trying to contact a Swiss Bank directly and have them confirm in writing what the rules are. I am also trying to get a US attorney and CPA to double and triple confirm.

But so far it seems as though this method would both avoid taxes (from the interest earned) and protect you from creditors.

This would be much simplier and much more effective than other asset protection vehicles plus you get the tax savings.

And there are local Swiss bank branches you could work with (ie you don't have to set this up remotely).

At the very least, this would be far better than leaving your money in FRN's and in a US Bank Account. There is no worse place to keep your money giving FRN's depcreciate, you pay taxes on the interest, and anyone can get to your money (eg IRS, creditors, Homeland Security).

I have also heard some good stuff about Swiss Trusts which I'll explore later. And I also heard about Safety Deposit boxes which could be far better than a US Bank Safety Deposit box since Homeland Security can take anything in a safety deposit box in a US bank at anytime.

I'll keep researching this.

Deposited for Credit on Account...

It sounds like one can get right back to the simplicity of what you pointed out. Either here or there, it is the profit and gain that you earn that gets taxed. If you are endorsing private credit from the Fed, here or there, for the cash you buy stuff with; that is included in the 16th Amendment - from whatever source (Income).

The Fed is there exclusively for reserve banks and if you endorse its private credit, that is what you become. Your research may show some perks to a Swiss bank account - vestigial from before about 2002 though. But if these new treaties are in place that allow the IRS to administratively sweep accounts in admiralty - even in Switzerland, then you will probably be spending a lot of fees over nothing. Especially with a comment from the CIA that Swiss banks are leaning heavily on the EU's Euro; meaning you may be losing over 33% in any transaction.

When you get the cash in your hands, redeem lawful money. All Shoonra's sophistry tells any of us is that there is still remedy. The remedy is still what it was in 1913 and amended in 1933 when the Fed banks were to expire after 20 years. Federal Reserve notes shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand... So far Shoonra hee's and haw's about how rediculous it is to expect that means US notes are still available to the public, just in the form of non-endorsed FRNs. All the while though - pay careful attention - Shoonra never explains how to redeem lawful money except by making change in FRNs or maybe trading in old ratty bills. Shoonra will not even admit that a dollar bill is called a dollar bill because it is nothing more than a bill of exchange and Shoonra argues that the FRN is a stock certificate from the Fed as a private banking corporation...

At the very least, this would be far better than leaving your money in FRN's and in a US Bank Account. There is no worse place to keep your money given FRN's depcreciate, you pay taxes on the interest, and anyone can get to your money (eg IRS, creditors, Homeland Security).

Right there is your understanding that the FRN's depreciating is what makes the Fed an instrumentality of the US. If the Fed were designed like other corporations with fiduciary responsibility to protect their stock value, then the Fed would not be an instrumentality of the US at all.

At the very least, this would be far better than leaving your money in FRN's and in a US Bank Account.

That is the assumption. And hopefully you can show us some clear reasons for saying so. Thanks for looking into it.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[netwrkranger]

andrewmitch wrote:
Stage 1 is stealth and State 2 is judgement proof.

Perhaps you mean privacy? Stealth sounds like evasion . Although, that maybe a motivator, privacy sounds better.

You have a right to keep your business private and out of the public sphere. I would say privacy stems from the right to be left alone =D.

[andrewmitch]

Stealth = privacy yes...

here is how that works...let's say someone slips on your yard and gets hurt. let's say they aren't hurt badly - just a quick trip to the doctor and that's that. but let's say they decide to get greedy. they call a member of the BAR. the member of the BAR will initiate a check into your assets. if the records don't show you own significant assets the member of the BAR may not take the case or discourage the client from moving forward. at this point members of the BAR aren't going to put much effort into this case because it doesn't seem like a big win. they'd require the client to at least start paying fees for the member of the BAR to do more research on your assets. given most cases have little weight, this is where you would win most cases - right at this point. now, granted you probably would have won in court but why go through the trouble and expenses? now, if the case has more weight (like the guy was really injured and it was really your fault) then the case may go to a deposition and the stealth/privacy is removed. However, I think (still need to confirm) that even if you tell them about your Swiss account they can't touch it.

Note: Annuities and IRA and 401k's are judgement proof from the onset because you don't have access to this money until age 60 or so. Therefore it is not really yours and you don't have control over it. Therefore it is not yours to lose.

One thing I will check out is if the bank account could be opened or redemed with Gold.

I don't think you pay taxes on the money when it is taken out. You already paid taxes on the money when it was earned. Even in the US bank you wouldn't pay taxes on money withdrawn - only the interest earned and in a Swiss Bank there is no tax on the interest.

What is the status on EUROS - I thought it was a good currency? We may have to find a good currency to use for the Swiss Account since the Franc would be considered a Swiss Investment and therefore, subject to a 35% Swiss Tax.

[netwrkranger]

andrewmitch wrote:
One thing I will check out is if the bank account could be opened or redemed with Gold.

That would be a negative =D. I had asked a bank a long time ago (before learning this material) about buying gold and silver from the bank and received a big fat, "We don't do that."

You can, however, purchase gold and silver from the US Mint online.

andrewmitch wrote:
I don't think you pay taxes on the money when it is taken out. You already paid taxes on the money when it was earned. Even in the US bank you wouldn't pay taxes on money withdrawn - only the interest earned and in a Swiss Bank there is no tax on the interest.

Depends on the IRA. You have a choice of the account being tax-differed (Traditional) or tax-free (Roth). If you have an annuity and it accrues interest, I'm certain there will be tax on that interest.

Disclaimer: I generally can't stand Motley Fools (because the financial advice given is typically a joke), but this is a great article from their website concerning IRAs: http://www.fool.com/Money/AllAboutIR...boutiras03.htm

Legal basis for IRAs
The individual retirement account and related vehicles (see Definitions) were created by amendments to the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 (as amended) made by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA), which enacted (among other things) Internal Revenue Code sections 219 (26 U.S.C. § 219) and 408 (26 U.S.C. § 408) relating to IRAs.
- Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individ...rement_Account

Heh.... it seems your IRA directly ties into the IRC.... interesting....
Could be a way to directly keep track of some of your assets???
Am I detecting elements of a trust in an IRA? The parties being you, beneficiaries, the fudiciary (custodian), and the government.

andrewmitch wrote:
What is the status on EUROS - I thought it was a good currency? We may have to find a good currency to use for the Swiss Account since the Franc would be considered a Swiss Investment and therefore, subject to a 35% Swiss Tax.

You have some options concerning currencies. You could exchange some of your FRNs for euros, british pounds, canadian loonies, etc. through a bank (or exchange service) and hold these with the rest of your private cash. I would do this simply for protection and investing. If the dollar collapses, you have currency from another country in order to pay your way out in the event of an emergency (if you so choose). Think of it as a hedge strategy against the FRNs in your possession. I, personally, would get euros, pounds, francs, and maybe deutsche marks and loonies. 1000 to 2000 of each currency should be good and more if you desire.

You could also get involved in the FOREX (Foreign Exchange) market. You have to be careful with this option. It would take some time to learn how to play that game. The futures market and FOREX are generally considered high risk investments, but they are TONS of fun =D.

- netwrkranger