Asset Protection & Estate Planning Discuss methods of protecting assets and estate planning, such as trusts, investments, etc.


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  #1  
Old 01-23-2005, 09:59 AM
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dochand dochand is offline
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Protecting Pop's Assets

Here's the short version.

Pop's ill and following the death of Mom 2 years ago, he sold the house and purchased, in cash, an aprtment in a 'assisted living' type retirement village. I think it cost him about $250K.

His health is failing more recently and we can easily forsee his being moved to a full-time care facility in the near future.

He expressed his uneasiness in Uncle Sam and/or the nursing facility taking all his assets. We children (4) don't really care about the $$$, but he wants to have something left from his lifetime of labor to leave to us and his grandkids (13).

I understand his thinking as I have taken precautions to preserve my assets to be left foe my kids when I go home to Jesus.

What I am specifically inquiring about from members of Sui Juris is what options we might have for placing the interest in Pop's property in some type of irrevocable trust or such medium that would make his assets impervious to nursing homes,the Irs and other thieves.

Thanx for any and all input.

Doc
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2005, 11:31 AM
HenryBowman
 
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I wish I knew about an irrevocable trust.

It appears that the trust created by the Deed of Trust is irrevocable.

I will look into it more in the coming days.

HB
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Old 01-23-2005, 11:53 AM
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Hey HB!

Thanks for the reply.

Someone mentioned a Quit Claim Deed, I think it's called, where Pop could transfer ownership to a trust.

Don't have much knowledge on these things. That's why I'm pickin' brains here.

Doc
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2005, 05:21 AM
truth
 
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RE: Protecting Pop's Assets

Good Day,

Keep in mind that congress is well aware that the sheep have figured how they are being fleeced and consequently, put in place federal legislation that allows them to go back 36 months from the billing date, after your dad's assets, even IF he has conveyed them. That was the case a few years ago, I'm not sure if such legislation still exists or possibly, has been modified.

A quit claim deed conveys the "beneficial interest", and will work, even if conveyed to someone other than a trust. But, a properly written trust is the best bet. I firmly believe every property "owner" in the country, should put their property into non-statutory trusts. Most do not realize they can do this even if there is a mortgage on the property. And the attorneys and the banking system DO NOT want them to know. Research the difference between "legal" and "equitable" title. We are not supposed to know there is a BIG difference, and we are certainly not supposed to know WHAT that difference is. Because the truth of the matter is that THE EQUITABLE TITLE IS THE SUPERIOR TITLE THERETO. So, by rights, if there is a dispute in title between you and a bank or other creditor, your claim trumps theirs. But, try and get any "court" to admit it. Food for thought!!!

Sincerely,
truth

Last edited by truth : 01-24-2005 at 06:42 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2005, 04:07 PM
Bird Bird is offline
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dochand:

Yes, your father can sign a quitclaim deed over to a trust or anyone else. In fact, you may want him to sign a quitclaim deed right now to whatever names he wants, and hang on to it until you set up your trust or whatever other vehicle you choose (this deed is valid and doesn't rely on being recorded to be enforceable).
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Old 01-26-2005, 04:45 AM
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Equity v Legal title

Can you guys expand on these last two thoughts a bit? My Dad just celebrated his 84th birthday and I have been thinking that we need to find a way to protect my parents free and clear house from pillaging of the Feds should something happen to them. The clinker is that my sister-in-law works for an agency for Older Americans and is adamant about the 36 month window the Feds will review and rape.
I begin to think one must be a sleep-depraved, research maniac to even touch each of the areas that we need knowledge in to take back our rights, property and liberty that has been silently stripped from We the People over the last 300 years!
Thanks for sharing!

Seeker
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  #7  
Old 01-26-2005, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth
Good Day,

Keep in mind that congress is well aware that the sheep have figured how they are being fleeced and consequently, put in place federal legislation that allows them to go back 36 months from the billing date, after your dad's assets, even IF he has conveyed them. That was the case a few years ago, I'm not sure if such legislation still exists or possibly, has been modified.

A quit claim deed conveys the "beneficial interest", and will work, even if conveyed to someone other than a trust. But, a properly written trust is the best bet. I firmly believe every property "owner" in the country, should put their property into non-statutory trusts. Most do not realize they can do this even if there is a mortgage on the property. And the attorneys and the banking system DO NOT want them to know. Research the difference between "legal" and "equitable" title. We are not supposed to know there is a BIG difference, and we are certainly not supposed to know WHAT that difference is. Because the truth of the matter is that THE EQUITABLE TITLE IS THE SUPERIOR TITLE THERETO. So, by rights, if there is a dispute in title between you and a bank or other creditor, your claim trumps theirs. But, try and get any "court" to admit it. Food for thought!!!

Sincerely,
truth

Research has begun.

Legal title definition – a title is the owner's right to possess and use and transfer the property.

Equitable title definition - The interest held by a vendee under a contract for deed or an installment contract; the equitable right to obtain absolute ownership to property when legal title is held in another's name.

Some more on title:

TITLE - The sum total of legally recognized rights to the possession and ownership of property. Ownership of property.

The means whereby the owner of lands hath the just possession of his property. This is the definition of title to lands only.

There are several stages or degrees requisite to form a complete title to lands and tenements. 1st. The lowest and most imperfect degree of title is the mere possession, or actual occupation of the estate, without any apparent right to hold or continue such possession; this happens when one man disseises another. 2dly. The next step to a good and perfect title is the right of possession, which may reside in one man, while the actual possession is not in himself, but in another. This right of possession is of two sorts; an apparent right of possession, which may be defeated by proving a better; and an actual right of possession, which will stand the test against all opponents. 3dly. The mere right of property, the jus proprietatis without either possession or the right of possession.

A title is either good, marketable, doubtful, or bad.

A good title is that which entitles a man by right to a property or estate, and to the lawful possession of the same.

A marketable title is one which a court of equity considers to be so clear that it will enforce its acceptance by a purchaser. The ordinary acceptation of the term marketable title, would convey but a very imperfect notion of its legal and technical import.

To common apprehension, unfettered by the technical and conventional distinction of lawyers, all titles being either good or bad, the former would be considered marketable, the latter non-marketable. But this is not the way they are regarded in courts of equity, the distinction taken there being not between a title which is absolutely good or absolutely bad, but between a title, which the court considers to be so clear that it will enforce its acceptance by a purchaser, and one which the court will not go so far as to declare a bad title, but only that it is subject to so much doubt that a purchaser ought not to be compelled to accept it. In short, whatever may be the private opinion of the court, as to the goodness of the title yet if there be a reasonable doubt either as to a matter of law or fact involved in it, a purchaser will not be compelled to complete his purchase; and such a title, though it may be perfectly secure and unimpeachable as a holding title is said, in the current language of the day, to be unmarketable.

The doctrine of marketable titles is purely equitable and of modern origin. At law every title not bad is marketable.

A doubtful title is one which the court does not consider to be so clear that it will enforce its acceptance by a purchaser, nor so defective as to declare it a bad title, but only subject to so much doubt that a purchaser ought not to be compelled to accept it.

At common law, doubtful titles are unknown; there every title must be either good or bad.

A bad title is one which conveys no property to a purchaser of an estate.

Title to real estate is acquired by two methods, namely, by descent and by purchase.

Title to personal property may accrue in three different ways. By original acquisition. 2. By transfer, by act of law. 3. By transfer, by, act of the parties.

Title by original acquisition is acquired, 1st. By occupancy. This mode of acquiring title has become almost extinct in civilized governments, and it is permitted to exist only in those few special cases, in which it may be consistent with the public good. First. Goods taken by capture in war were, by the common law, adjudged to belong to the captor, but now goods taken from enemies in time of war, vest primarily in the sovereign, and they belong to the individual captors only to the extent and under such regulations, as positive laws may prescribe. Secondly. Another instance of acquisition by occupancy, which still exists under certain limitations, is that of goods casually lost by the owner, and unreclaimed, or designedly abandoned by him; and in both these cases they belong to the fortunate finder.

- 2d. Title by original acquisition is acquired by accession. See Accession.

- 3d. It is acquired by intellectual labor. It consists of literary property as the construction of maps and charts, the writing of books and papers. The benefits arising from such labor are secured to the owner. 1. By patent rights for inventions. See Patents. 2. By copyrights. See Copyrights.

The title to personal property is acquired and lost by transfer, by act of law, in various ways. 1. By forfeiture. 2. By succession. 3. By marriage. 4. By judgment. 5. By insolvency. 6. By intestacy.

Title is also acquired and lost by transfer by the act of the party. 1. By gift. 2. By contract or sale.

In general, possession constitutes the criterion of title of personal property, because no other means exist by which a knowledge of the fact to whom it belongs can be attained. A seller of a chattel is not, therefore, required to show the origin of his title, nor, in general, is a purchaser, with-out notice of the claim of the owner, compellable to make restitution; but, it seems, that a purchaser from a tenant for life of personal chattels, will not be secure against the claims of those entitled in remainder.

To the rule that possession is the criterion of title of property may be mentioned the case of ships, the title of which can be ascertained by the register.

To convey a title the seller must himself have a title to the property which is the subject of the transfer. But to this general rule there are exceptions. 1. The lawful coin of the United States will pass the property along with the possession. 2. A negotiable instrument endorsed in blank is transferable by any person holding it, so as by its delivery to give a good title "to any person honestly acquiring it."

Now I have to sort through it all and try to make sense of it.

Doc
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  #8  
Old 01-26-2005, 10:14 AM
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dochand dochand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird
dochand:

Yes, your father can sign a quitclaim deed over to a trust or anyone else. In fact, you may want him to sign a quitclaim deed right now to whatever names he wants, and hang on to it until you set up your trust or whatever other vehicle you choose (this deed is valid and doesn't rely on being recorded to be enforceable).

Thanks Bird.

Questions - Does the 36 month rule apply from the date of the quitclaim deed or after it is put in trust?

Who have you used for the trust? Or did you set it up yourself using guidelines you obtained somewhere?

I have Aware's trust info that they claim can be used to set up any amount of trusts I choose. Are you familiar with them?

Doc
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Old 01-26-2005, 10:17 AM
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dochand dochand is offline
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker
Can you guys expand on these last two thoughts a bit? My Dad just celebrated his 84th birthday and I have been thinking that we need to find a way to protect my parents free and clear house from pillaging of the Feds should something happen to them. The clinker is that my sister-in-law works for an agency for Older Americans and is adamant about the 36 month window the Feds will review and rape.
I begin to think one must be a sleep-depraved, research maniac to even touch each of the areas that we need knowledge in to take back our rights, property and liberty that has been silently stripped from We the People over the last 300 years!
Thanks for sharing!

Seeker

Seeker

I'm so happy to know that I'm not the only one here that is sleep-deprived and sufferring from 'Overwhelm Syndrome'.

'Scuse me while I put on another pot of coffee.

Doc
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