LLC or Trust?

rushpat · #1 04-01-2004, 09:27 AM

I was reading at

http://www.pfshield.com

that private LLC's can offer plenty of protection, but are much less expensive to set up than one of the Pure Trusts.

Does anyone care to read what they have to say and comment?

#2 04-01-2004, 03:52 PM

while i can't speak for trusts, as i haven't any and thus no practical experience and am still waiting for a return call to get information, i can talk a little about llcs.

our accountant says they are "loosey goosey" when it comes to BB.& there are many loopholes and so on and ambiguity surrounding llcs.& my folks and i (me somewhat reluctantly) are going this route instead of any type of trust at this time due to cost, expediency, and the lack of scrutiny by BB.

i have seen/read too many pieces of crap & good stuff to risk a trust setup right now without better evidence/background, etc.& i feel the llc is safer at the moment to deal with - at least it is a known quantity.& i have found that trust companies are either vague about trust details or won't provide anything concrete from which to make an educated assessment about those instruments.& at least so far.& and then there are the multitudinous scam artists who peddle sham trusts.& honestly, it is very, very difficult to tell a "real" vendor from a scam one.

i don't doubt the legitimacy of trust vehicles.& there are many to choose from that have no issues - my grandfather on my stepfather's side set one up for his kids such that his inheritors paid no taxes (the main reason to set up such things!), so i know there are legitimate vehicles out there. problem is finding a reputable trust company that is more than just words on a page (and not $10k or more!)...

one thing&i can say is set yourself up properly from the start if you can at all - changing things later can complicate matters.

my two cents...(or non-cents)...

jon

rushpat · #3 04-02-2004, 09:57 AM

I did speak to someone about pure / constitutional / common law trusts. He did say that there would be about 4 weeks at the minimum to get it set up even before you could start transferring assets, not to mention the very high price to start them.

I'm thinking I'm going to look into the pfshield NM LLCs as they are not terribly expensive and it would look less like a scheme to protect assets.

suijuris · #4 04-02-2004, 11:18 AM

How much do they charge for the NM LLC?

rushpat · #5 04-02-2004, 11:46 AM

Well, it looks like just the paperwork is only $50 per LLC, but they offer more services listed here:

http://www.pfshield.com/Services.html

The deluxe package looks like about $759.

Here's the deluxe package info from their webpage:
-------

This package comes with 1 anonymously owned LLC*, as a part of a complete asset protection package. For many people, more than one LLC
is recommended in order to maximize the effectiveness of your program. You may have us organize up to 5 additional LLC's for only $299 each, plus filing, resident agent, and offshore address fees.**

This is What You Receive:
An offshore (outside U.S. jurisdiction) street address (not a PO Box) for your Anonymous LLC's principle place of business. You may store up to 100 pages of documents at this address (including an operating agreement, if desired.)
Free, Unlimited Consultation for 1 year. You may ask unlimited questions of Ryan Fowler, PF Shield's asset protection expert. We will instruct you in the best strategies for use of your LLC ? i.e. using it to file liens to strip any equity you have from your hard assets, using it for protected/private banking, using it for holding
property, along with other uses. If you desire, PF Shield can also show you how to use Land Trusts and Personal Property Trusts, in conjunction with your LLC, for an extremely high level of privacy.*** (The average estimated additional cost to have such a trust drafted is approximately $500, and will involve securing the services of an attorney.)

Your LLC record book, which will include: Â*Deluxe three-ring binder with slipcover customized with the name of your LLC.The certified Articles of Organization, file-stamped by the New Mexico Secretary of State Â*An official LLC Certificate of Organization, Â*imprinted with the New Mexico state seal. Â*Â*

At your request, an operating agreement may be provided for your LLC. (This requires an online purchase from a 3rd party. Currently, the cost for this is $16. PF Shield will make recommendations on how to use the software to correctly draft an
operating agreement that is tailored to you for maximum protection of the LLC and
its property.)

AT NO EXTRA COST, THE FOLLOWING SERVICES ARE INCLUDED:

At your option, we will provide you with an LLC nominee manager, free for 1 year (after consulting with us, however, you may want to choose someone else to manage the LLC, whom you are better acquainted with.) Call PF Shield at 1-800-798-2008 for management rates after the 1st year.

We will instruct and assist you in the filing of liens to strip your property of exposed equity, which will help protect your hard assets from seizure and hostile (involuntary) liens. The service of a local paralegal or attorney may be required to
make sure that all liens comply with state law. The extra expense of doing this is estimated at $50-200 per lien.

We will assist you in opening your own LLC bank account. At your request, we will open for you an online precious metals "virtual bank" account, where you may invest in gold and silver - a commodity with REAL INTRINSIC VALUE that is not affected by inflation/currency devaluation, unlike the Federal Reserve's fiat currency. We are happy to assist you in the purchase of a
debit card and/or CRYPTOcard for this account (fees will apply according to the other company's standard rates.)

If so desired, we will open an online brokerage account, using your LLC, which you may use for investing and additional financial services.
You can have all this, a COMPLETE asset protection system, for only $759.00 plus filing and resident agent fees!**

Click here to access our Red
Pill section. Be sure to check
out the section on illegal IRS
wage garnishment!

* PF Shield's claim of an "anonymous"ly owned LLC means that there is no public record anywhere that identifies the owner(s) of the LLC. We will instruct you as to the proper precautions to be taken in order to maintain your LLC's anonymity. If you wish to open up an LLC bank account, which is not connected to you but is
privately controlled by you, you will most likely have to use your LLC in conjunction with a Personal Property Trust (a revocable living trust-type nominee agreement), which will be drafted by a local attorney at an approximate estimated cost of $500. PF Shield is happy to assist its clients and their attorneys with creating and using these types of trusts. In lieu of using a bank account, a client may want to use some alternate banking methods, which are recommended by PF Shield, that are easier to use in complete privacy, by using an anonymous LLC without the need for a trust or nominee agreement. Please also realize that if you are placed under investigation, or forced to testify in a court of law, or if you don't take the proper
precautions, your anonymity may be compromised, notwithstanding our privacy
measures.

** Here is a list of fees required to set up an LLC:
New Mexico LLC state filing fees are $50.
Indiana LLC state filing fees are $90.

Resident agent fees (required by state law) are $99 per year.
There is a $15 per year maintenance fee for your offshore address. The offshore address is NOT a mail forwarding service, but all correspondence
from the state will be forwarded to you. You may keep an operating agreementand/or up to 100 pages of other documents at this offshore address.

You may opt to not use an offshore address, and subtract $110 from the Â*package price, but please be aware that in most instances an offshore addressis HIGHLY recommended!)

*** Properly using a Land Trust or Personal Property Trust in conjunction with an
anonymous LLC, along with proper structuring of the attorney-client privilege, will usually protect your privacy, even if you are investigated or required to testify against yourself in a civil judiciary proceeding. Such a trust cannot, however, guarantee 100% that your privacy will be maintained in such a situation

#6 04-03-2004, 06:23 AM

i dunno rushpat, that's got the ring of cloudiness around it.& i'd be really careful about it.

i'm not sure how a public entity, like an LLC, can be private at the same time.& it is a creature of the code - Limited Liability Corporation.

i'd also be extremely wary of offshore stuff these days.& the BB MIBs are pushing really hard to get rid of the havens, etc., not to mention the volatility of the gov'ts there.

in my mind 'tis better to ply the waters in your own vessel that flys a recognized flag & will let you pass, rather than a ship of unknown origin & destination that will therefore be subject to search & seizure.

remember what we learn here - they must hold to their own laws & code when applied correctly.& in general, this means that much they appear to do they can only do by/with our consent out of our own ignorance.

my two cents.

jon

#7 04-03-2004, 02:52 PM

2 more cents:

I did a little reading on the website. But I do not have time to read as much as I would like, or even everything listed in this post. However, if you choose to go the LLC route, there are 2 things you must take into consideration: 1) You MUST create your own operating agreement.& By doing this, you can create your own rules on how to&do EVERYTHING&within your own business (notice I did not say protect assets, because this is not the general purpose of this type of entity, which leads to...) 2) Just because an LLC has not had it's veil pierced does not mean that it is not possible.LLC's are very new entities in their legal status/relationships with little legal history, and many investors, venture capitalists, etc. will not even touch them b/c there are too many unsettled legal issues.& So, what I feel is, do not use an LLC whose sole purpose is to protect assets, otherwise you may have no protection at all.& A Trust, although more expensive, will give you a guarantee, if set up properly, whereas an LLC gives you no guarantee at all.

-squirrels

nralien · #8 04-11-2004, 11:58 AM

rushpat

Do you know if the STARWMAN/TRADENAME is the one establishing a LLC?

nralien

Ice · #9 04-11-2004, 04:41 PM

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I am not a young manâ€¦ and LLCâ€™s have been around as long as I can rememberâ€¦ so, where does this idea come from that they have not been around for very long?[/b]
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#10 04-11-2004, 11:23 PM

Ice,

Wyoming was the first state to enact a limited liability company (LLC) statute, thereby authorizing its existence, in 1977.& It was not until the mid-1990's that every state had adopted a LLC statute.&Therefore, they are very new entities with little legal history.

-squirrels