Silver and Gold

[weishaupt1776]

I would like to discuss the aquisition and storage of precious metals
for when the SHTF BUT NOT FOR INVESTMENT PURPOSES IN THE STOCK MARKET.

I will be cutting / pasting some posts from another forum shortly

Let's really make an effort to eventually have a goal of a step by step process, so keep this in mind when you post so this doesn't turn into a mayhem/potluck/collage type situation

For instsnce, If it is copy paste from somewhere or a long exposition, try to summarize what you think would be a viable process in an orderly fashion rather than just spewing stuff

So, with that said, I believe step 1 is that

When you buy silver you need to know the spot price.

The following web sites will give the spot price. www.kitco.com & www.goldcalculator.com

Maybe Look in the Yellow pages under either "gold" or "coins"

Walk in, Pay Cash, Take the sack of coins (or put them in your pocket) and WALK OUT.

IMHO, DO NOT buy if you can't touch it. Yes there are lots of good businesses out there, but there are also lots of crooks.

pre-1965 silver dimes and quarters are a good way to go from what I've heard

I don't know, this place looks pretty serious
http://lynncoins.com/bars.htm


Anyone ????

[weishaupt1776]

Here is a post by Snakebite of the Frugal squirell forum:

SURVIVAL SILVER

These are my thoughts regarding buying silver for medium/long-term survival purposes (though maybe for some shorter term purposes as well). I'm by no means an expert, but here is what my research has led me to do. This post represents my opinion only. Yours may differ. Fine. If so, why? Let's be civil. We're all here to learn.

BOTTOM LINE: To the extent I buy silver, it will be Silver Eagles, despite the higher cost-per-ounce (IMO, that factor is compensated for by other factors). Several rolls of pre-65 dimes and quarters would also be in order. Were I to bug out with the possibility of never coming back, then along with FRNs, I'd include in the BOB maybe a roll each of dimes and quarters, and as many Eagles as weight allows for. (Gold eagles are a separate topic.)

Following is what I've based my opinion on. Some of the particulars may not be exact, but represent what I think would usually be considered "close enough."

=======================

Definitions:
JS = Junk silver
SB = Silver bars/ingots
SE = Silver eagles

Scale: Poor, Fair, Good, Excellent

------------------------------------------

1) Cost-to-Silver Content Ratio
JS = Excellent
SB = Good
SE = Poor

Notes
JS: Cost is from below spot price to 3% over, depending on denomination of coin and where/when you buy.
SB: Cost is about 5% to 10% over spot, depending on where/when you buy.
SE: Cost is about 20% to 30% over spot, depending on where/when you buy.

2) Weight-to-Content Ratio (per ounce)
JS = Poor (as compared to other alternatives)
SB = Excellent
SE = Excellent

Notes
JS: Each coin is about 90% "fine silver," and each denomination varies in weight. But on average, weight : value ratio = 1 : .82 (approx). Junk silver is good to have on hand if you're bugging-in and plan to remain there for the long haul, but how much of it do you want to lug around in your BOB should you need to permanently beat feet? Next best solution is to cache it, and hope it's still there when you need it. Silver bars and eagles hold more value per ounce of weight.
SB: Pure fine silver; weight : content = 1 : 1.
SE: Pure fine silver; weight : content = 1 : 1.

3) Ease of Determining Silver Content ("How much silver is in this?"). In my opinion, this is the most important category, so I give more importance to the grades.

JS = Fair
SB = Poor to Fair
SE = Excellent

Notes
JS: Let's see... There are about 14 dimes or 5.6 quarters to an ounce of silver. Fine Silver = .999% pure silver; pre-65 US silver coinage = 90% fine silver + 10% copper. The calculation for ounce of silver per coin goes something like this: Dime = .07234; Quarter = .18084; Half-Dollar = .36169; Morgan Dollar = .77344; Eisenhower Dollar = .3161 (some '71-'76 Eisenhowers were silver, some were not). Note that wear and tear can reduce the percentage of an older coin's silver a bit, so that a $1000 face value bag of junk silver containing well-worn coins could contain as much as 5oz to 8oz less silver than a bag containing less-worn specimens. Brush up on your math.
SB: Depends on source. Some bars may have little info regarding content/maker on them, others have all the info needed. But the question of reliability could still come into play if one party in the transaction is ignorant of either the name of the maker, or how to test a bar for silver content to avoid counterfeits. No doubt that under a long-term, widespread barter system, this information would eventually become fairly common knowledge, but the reliability factor for silver bars will probably never match that for either junk silver or silver eagle coins.
SE: Extremely easy to determine content, since the coin itself reads, "1 OZ. FINE SILVER." Failsafe.

4) Difficult to Counterfeit (Is it "genuine"?)

JS = Excellent (extremely difficult to counterfeit)
SB = Fair (possible to conterfeit)
SE = Excellent (extremely difficult to counterfeit)

Notes:
JS: Very little potential for counterfeiting, especially considering the relatively low silver content.
SB: The more valuable silver becomes (in a SHTF/TEOTWAKI scenario), the more likely it is that silver bars and ingots will be counterfeited, even smaller ones. It won't necessarily be easy to counterfeit, but the possibility remains, and that, in itself, could make some transactions (maybe important ones, especially early on) problematic.
SE: Very little potential for counterfeiting.

5) Convenience factor (What if smaller denominations are needed?)
JS = Excellent
SB = Poor
SE = Fair

Notes
JS: For convenience sake, junk silver is great, because the amounts of silver per coin are much less than with silver eagles. It takes about 14 dimes or 6 quarters to equal one ounce of silver, so it's easy to make small purchases (assuming--and this could be a big assumption, early on--your trade partner knows what you know about the silver content of pre-65 coins).
SB: You can divide a silver bar into smaller pieces, but each piece won't contain the stamped information found on the bar itself, and this could cause a problem with reliability (as could the bar itself, of course, because it might be a stamped counterfeit). You may have to save the stamped portion till last and cut off individual pieces while the customer looks on, so he/she can see you're cutting from a stamped bar. But then how does the recipient convince his/her next client that he/she saw the little piece being cut from a stamped bar? ("Honest! This little piece of silver came from a genuine stamped bar. I saw it!") Do-able, but very inconvenient.
SE: Although it might be a bit awkward, guidelines could be developed for dividing silver eagles into one-half and one-quarter pieces, as long as certain letters and/or specific portions of images were visible on each piece. For example, to obtain a one-half eagle, you might cut from just to the right of the "E" in "LIBERTY" at the top of the coin, down through the center of the third numeral in the date at the bottom of the coin. (Or whatever.) Not as simple as using junk silver, but it could be done, and individual pieces thereafter circulated. Even a one-quarter piece of a silver eagle is instantly recognizable as such, and primitive scales could be constructed to test for weight. Also, there's the possibility you might find someone with a large stash of junk silver, and trade one or two of your eagles for the appropriate amount. Or the person you're trading with might have enough junk silver to take your eagle in trade and pay you the difference in pre-65s.

[weishaupt1776]

So based on the above, the pre-65's seem to be an affordable way to start

I believe the small denominations are practical in bartering

If you just have ounces of stuff to trade, you'd wind up trading a 400 FRN gold coin for a tank of gas

http://web.northstate.net/~seward/Su...unk_silver.htm

[brozer5]

These folks have a nice approach, and Swiss style diversity.

http://www.milesfranklin.com/splash.asp

I have been buying silver and gold from www.apmex.com.

They seem to have some of the smallest cost over spot. They are super fast in processing and shipping your order. Very nice folks on the phone. I have been buying from them for years. No minimum orders like losts of other sites.

Weis excellent job on the info and grading!

I buy AE gold coins 1/4 and 1/10 only, AE silver dollars, some silver Maples. I also buy quite a few generic silver rounds. APMEX only deals in known names (Englehard, Matthey, Suise, Silvertowne, Sunshine Mining, etc) So the content is quite reliable. Usual order is one 1/4, one 1/10 and 10 silver rounds.

Years ago I quit contributing to the 401k and and now shovel about $250 a month into Silver and Gold.

Don't believe anyone who says pre 33 gold in not confiscable and trys to push it with the higher premium over spot.

Face it if they are standing in your door to take your bullion coin, they are going to take the 'collection' too.

[wisper]

Originally Posted by Freesurf

Don't believe anyone who says pre 33 gold in not confiscable and trys to push it with the higher premium over spot.

Face it if they are standing in your door to take your bullion coin, they are going to take the 'collection' too.

What are the thoughts out there regarding confiscation?

[wisper]

I forgot to mention that I have had great experiences with the Northwest Territorial Mint. They are located in Auburn, WashintonAddress
P.O. Box 2148, Auburn, WA 98071-2148

Toll Free Phone
800-344-6468

Fax
253-735-2210

Email
sales@nwtmint.com

I bought bags of silver coins, some collectables, and some really great WWII
fighters (about 18), and some unique collectables, like , a set of 1oz silver ingots with the Norman Rockwell mag art.

Buying numismatic for SHTF scenarios is just like buying a 1965 mint condition Corvette for SHTF scenarios.

Intrinsic value, not numismatic value is my priority.

lead, copper, & brass first, then silver, then gold.



Henry Franklin

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

Buying numismatic for SHTF scenarios is just like buying a 1965 mint condition Corvette for SHTF scenarios.

That's why scrap silver and the silver rounds pre 65 (quarters and dimes) are the way to go for barter purposes[/quote]

lead, copper, & brass first

Well I guess you wnat to be able to protect the gold, right?

It seems like food and ammo is definitely on the priority list