trust provision appoint successor

[mikah2k]

delete thread

[Notorial dissent]

Depends upon how badly you want to add prison inmate to your resume.

The right of appointment belongs to the lender/benificiary of the Deed of Trust, not the trustor, and such rights are very specifically spelled out in the DOT.

The two Dorean boys tried that little gambit among other things and are now guests of the Feds for including that in their "process".

[mikah2k]

delete post

[Notorial dissent]

I will check around and see if there is still a version of the docs floating around, a lot of the old links are gone now, and I don't know if I kept a copy, but among other things they tried to appoint substitute trustees based on non existent powers of attorney, and then release the Deeds of Trust. They generally call that fraud where I come from.

The following is pretty much the standard boiler plate that comes in all DOT, if not they are controled by state statute which will say pretty much the same thing. The trustor doesn't appoint the first trustee either, except by signing the deed, the trusstee is nominated either by the lender, or again by state statute. Many states statutorially created a position of Public Trustee at county level who is part of the the County Clerks office, whose sole function is to oversee Deeds of Trust. If that is the case, there may not be anything in the DOT since the appointment is then controled by statute and there is no need for it. Since the office then holds the appointment rather than the person. The main reason being to prevent abuse.

24. Substitute Trustee. Lender, at its option, may from time to time appoint a successor trustee to any Trustee appointed hereunder by an instrument executed and acknowledged by Lender and recorded in the office of the Recorder of the county in which the Property is located. The instrument shall contain the name of the original Lender, Trustee and Borrower, the book and page where this Security Instrument is recorded and the name and address of the successor trustee. Without conveyance of the Property, the successor trustee shall succeed to all the title, powers and duties conferred upon the Trustee herein and by Applicable Law. This procedure for substitution of trustee shall govern to the exclusion of all other provisions for substitution.

http://www.ilrg.com/forms/deedoftrust.html
The foregoing or a variation of it is pretty much standard in all the TD's I have ever seen.

I think you are confusing a Trust with a Deed of Trust, they are similar in some respects, but some only. It is unlikely a court would intervene in a Deed of Trust appointment unless there was some serious law breach. If you have to compare the two, consider a Deed of Trust an irrevocable trust that the grantor gives up all control of from the moment of its signing. A trust is generally active from the moment of its creation, a Deed of Trust is dormant and non active unless and only if certain events take place.

A trust and its trustor only have such powers as either the trust itself, or statute allow, in general, if it isn't in the document or statute, you probably can't do it.

Define

"unlawful practice of law"

.

[mikah2k]

delete post

[mikah2k]

Previous posts deleted under coersion from some goverment attorney/trustee.

[mikah2k]

Note: to some government attorney/trustee: For the following is with the intention as theoretical rhetoric mumbo-jumbo non-[standard-]sense provisions in an unsigned paraphernalia without a level-geometric-plane.

Notorial Dissent, thank you for providing link and the provision below.

24. Substitute Trustee. Lender, at its option, may from time to time appoint a successor trustee to any Trustee appointed hereunder by an instrument executed and acknowledged by Lender and recorded in the office of the Recorder of the county in which the Property is located. The instrument shall contain the name of the original Lender, Trustee and Borrower, the book and page where this Security Instrument is recorded and the name and address of the successor trustee. Without conveyance of the Property, the successor trustee shall succeed to all the title, powers and duties conferred upon the Trustee herein and by Applicable Law. This procedure for substitution of trustee shall govern to the exclusion of all other provisions for substitution.

This procedure only governs [other, if any,] provisions [in the trust]. Provisions are only in the trust. So if a substitution is without a provision in the trust, said substitution is not governed by This procedure.

Originally Posted by Black's Fifth

Provision. Foresight of the chance of an event happening, sufficient to indicate that any present undertaking upon which its assumed realization might exert a natural and proper influence was entered upon in full contemplation of it as a future possiblity. ...

It is safe to say successor(noun)=substitute(noun), and succession = substitution.

Originally Posted by Black's Fifth

Successor trustee. A trustee who follows or succeeds an earlier trustee and who generally has all the powers of the earlier trustee. Trusts generally make provision for appointment of successor trustees.

The Black's-Fifth-team indicates that "generally" provisions for appointment of successor trustees exist in the trust.

Supposing no provision for appointment of successor trustee exists within the trust, i.e. beneficiary is not granted the power of appointment of successor trustee, and trustee is not granted the power of appointment of successor trustee, and trustor has written nothing in the trust about appointment of successor trustee: how do we get a successor trustee?

The un-informed determination is no succession of trusteeship is possible [perhaps without a (defacto) "court" action].

Supposing "court" actions and any third-party interference with respect to making succession of trusteeship are prohibited by some provision made in the above trust (since agreement of the parties is legal), and suppose the trust exists in the above scenario: how on earth do we get a successor?

[try thinking at this point]

So if we can get a successor trustee in the above scenario, then we can always (at any time) get a successor trustee.

If we cannot ever get a successor trustee in the above scenario, then trustors of deeds-of-trust are in the boat that most believe they are in now.

Please note: revocability and irrevocability is not at issue.

In re to "unlawful practice of law":
I rephrase the question: if "unauthorized practice of law" means "the practicing of law without the permission/license of a competent authority", do you believe the "unauthorized practice of law is a crime? do you believe the "unauthorized practice of law should be punishable?

[mikah2k]

Where were you when I wrote
in that thread ?

[Notorial dissent]

Again, you are confusing a Trust with a Deed of Trust, and they are not the same thing.

If there is nothing in the Deed, which is highly unlikely, then it would fall to statutory law as to what would happen with the trustee.

You are trying to suppose a set of circumstances that cannot exist. If you are talking about an actual trust either the trust will specify appointment succession, it will fall to state law, or a court will end up deciding, but a successor trustee will always be available, or the trust can always be terminated for invalidity.

A Trust Deed operates under entirely different rules, and the trustee will either be appointed by the beneficiary if state law allows, or will be a county officer.

[mikah2k]

This procedure only governs [other, if any,] provisions [in the trust]. Provisions are only in the trust. So if a substitution is without a provision in the trust, said substitution is not governed by This procedure.

I appreciate the fact that Notorial dissent did not address the above quote at all: "can't touch this."

Again, you are confusing a Trust with a Deed of Trust, and they are not the same thing.

All trusts are trusts. All deeds of trust are trusts. I agree that All trusts are not deeds of trust (as in security instrument). But, at my county recorder, all items offered for recording are called deeds (a grantor and grantee index exists). As such all trusts that are recorded are deeds -- hmmm... deeds of trust. Maybe I need your definition of "same" or "thing", that we be in harmony.

"A Trust Deed operates under entirely different rules"

Says who?

A contract is a contract. A trust is a trust. A trust is a contract. The rules of contracts are "the agreement of the parties".

and the trustee will either be appointed by the beneficiary if state law allows, or will be a county officer.

rhetorical: How de-facto are we yet?
If the agreement of the parties forbids what you describe, the court/state actors are without jurisdiction, i.e. no true appointment is in effect and can be dispensed with at the discretion of a competent party.

You are trying to suppose a set of circumstances that cannot exist.

A contract/trust can cause any set of circumstances exist [at least on paper, (after all, all mortgagors are called "debtors" when, in fact, most are "creditors")], and the contract/trust need not be based on reality, as the contract/trust must be based only on "agreement of the parties".

I guess a de-facto court will try to rule on matters without jurisdiction, as it happens daily.
In the mortal words of JRB: overruled, this court has jurisdiction.

but a successor trustee will always be available, or the trust can always be terminated for invalidity.

Gosh darn it!!! We agree.
Give me my successor or Cancel that puppy(trust). You sound like a hardcore sui jurist: I bet you cancel those puppies all the time for invalidity, or get your home-grown successor in office.

And for one million DOLLARS, Question: "a successor trustee will always be available at the behest of whom?"

Answer that and we might as well go golfing together, and exchange friendship guns/tesla-cannons (instead of friendship bracelets).