Public Money by right - direct experiences please!

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by mnchicago

The printing of Notes is Constitutional, US Notes, yes,
FRNs, no.

But it is constitutional for Congress to set up a private credit system with the central bank - the Federal Reserve System. Nations have been doing that for several centuries now.

And it is constitutional for that central bank to issue currency upon the bond of any party who desires it voluntarily.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[jekylisland]

How long have patriots been going to FRB's asking for US dollars in exchange for FRN's? Only to be told that the FRB reserves the right to exchange "in like-kind", and gave the exact FRN's back.

Seems to me David has made the correct distinction in exchanging paychecks for USN's

[David Merrill]

I had made the distinction but figured it nobody's business if twenty minutes later I was negotiating my non-negotiable FRNs for gasoline. Then Shoonra defined negotiable to be exchangeable for a higher form of currency.
I am no longer concerned about negotiating or non-negotiating my FRNs. It is my US Notes in the form of FRNs that are non-negotiable FRNs.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[PANICPASS]

When you sign a W-4 you negotiate your paycheck. Your paycheck is negotiable so long as you agreed to allow them to take FRNS out of your paycheck and give you what is left.

You can sign your paycheck as non-negotiable but that says nothing to the negotiable funds initially authorized to be taken.

[David Merrill]

Just the same, that was withholdings - a mandatory savings account with the Treasury on the assumption you would be cashing your paychecks for private credit FRNs.

If there were no taxable events during the tax year, then the account is released in Refund.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[PANICPASS]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Just the same, that was withholdings - a mandatory savings account with the Treasury on the assumption you would be cashing your paychecks for private credit FRNs.

If there were no taxable events during the tax year, then the account is released in Refund.


Regards,

David Merrill.

You are making up your own assumptions. You assume the enemy is thinking the same thing you are, that the FRNS taken out is a mandatory saving account. Where did you get that from? And there is no assumption that you would be cashing your paycheck for private credit FRNS. If there is such an assumption they would never admit it, and if they would never admit it, then the assumption is no good.

[PANICPASS]

The point is David, you can't just make up your own rules and not let the other party know what those rules are. The rules are set when you sign the W-4. That's what you agree to until you put new rules in writing. You shouldn't assume they will know what you mean.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

The point is David, you can't just make up your own rules and not let the other party know what those rules are. The rules are set when you sign the W-4. That's what you agree to until you put new rules in writing. You shouldn't assume they will know what you mean.

It is clear what is meant. I do not agree with your assessment of withholdings.

What is meant by all parties is that in anticipation of taxable events during the tax year, the employer will be sending a percentage of the paychecks, before they are cashed, to the Treasury to be held in account. That is what the taxpayer says, according to the set rules, when the taxpayer signs the W4.

I think that what you are telling me is that the taxpayer/employee is actually cashing part of the paycheck for private credit and sending it into the Treasury through consent by signing the W4. You could be right but I do not think so.

When you cash the check for private credit FRNs then the bank can fractionalize currency by loaning out your credit. I do not see that happening with funds put in account with the Treasury. But maybe the Treasury is already using those funds for fractionalizing loans, and I am saying that does not matter. The Treasury loves to fractionalize funds and they cannot come back and say you have (had) no right to public money just because they have already fractionalized (inflated) currency on your account.

It is when you cash a check or withdraw cash that you specify non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes. While it is in the account it really doesn't matter that the Fed and its banks are fractionalizing on the funds. They probably do it all the time regardless of the stamp on the paycheck. It is just that when you claim no taxable income on the 1040 - to get the withholdings back, they IRS cannot prove otherwise.

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...blic_money.jpg

The Fed is not complaining that they were able to fractionalize this guy's funds for two years before he started using the stamp.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[PANICPASS]

the employer will be sending a percentage of the paychecks, before they are cashed, to the Treasury to be held in account. That is what the taxpayer says, according to the set rules, when the taxpayer signs the W4.

Actually, the W-4 doesn't say the employer will be sending a percentage of paycheck to Treasury to be held in account. What is taken out of the paycheck is a mystery. What is not a mystery is that a signed W-4 is a agreement (negotiable) to subtract digits from your paycheck. How many digits substracted is unknown until you get your paycheck. What those digits were are a mystery because they are no longer included in your paycheck to be cashed. What they subtracted and sent to the TreasuryDept is a mystery because you never receive a receipt from your employer of the payment they allegedly sent to the Treasury.


I think that what you are telling me is that the taxpayer/employee is actually cashing part of the paycheck for private credit and sending it into the Treasury through consent by signing the W4. You could be right but I do not think so.


No, the employee/taxpayer is not cashing part of the paycheck for private credit when the W-4 is signed. The employee doesn't know what he/she is negotiating when they sign the W-4. The W-4 doesn't disclose any thing will be subtracted from the paycheck unless you have stipulated the amount in $$'s on the W-4.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by PANICPASS

the employer will be sending a percentage of the paychecks, before they are cashed, to the Treasury to be held in account. That is what the taxpayer says, according to the set rules, when the taxpayer signs the W4.

Actually, the W-4 doesn't say the employer will be sending a percentage of paycheck to Treasury to be held in account. What is taken out of the paycheck is a mystery. What is not a mystery is that a signed W-4 is a agreement (negotiable) to subtract digits from your paycheck. How many digits substracted is unknown until you get your paycheck. What those digits were are a mystery because they are no longer included in your paycheck to be cashed. What they subtracted and sent to the TreasuryDept is a mystery because you never receive a receipt from your employer of the payment they allegedly sent to the Treasury.


I think that what you are telling me is that the taxpayer/employee is actually cashing part of the paycheck for private credit and sending it into the Treasury through consent by signing the W4. You could be right but I do not think so.


No, the employee/taxpayer is not cashing part of the paycheck for private credit when the W-4 is signed. The employee doesn't know what he/she is negotiating when they sign the W-4. The W-4 doesn't disclose any thing will be subtracted from the paycheck unless you have stipulated the amount in $$'s on the W-4.

It's been a while since I had to deal with withholdings but from what I remember, and my memory is pretty good, you are wrong.

There is a schedule that payroll abides by and they calculate the withholdings by how many exemptions you declare based upon your position as a taxpayer - number of children, married etc.

You agree that the W4 withholdings are not a matter of cashing part of your paycheck.

I think I have explained it well enough for the Readers to understand. If you use the stamp cashing for non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes then there is no taxable event. At the end of the tax year, if you have no taxable events to declare private credit with the Federal Reserve, then the Treasury is obligated to release the withholdings held in anticipation of taxable events - Refund.



Regards,

David Merrill.