Hiding assets ...

[rushpat]

Okay, I've seen plenty of posts on how to use Trusts and LLC's to hold assets like autos and real estate. The only problem I see is how to hide the loan on such things.

For a car, it's not too difficult to envision paying off the loan (if there was one), but what about a mortgage? I don't think I'd want to wait decades to have enough money saved to pay off a house in one shot.

If I want to get some real-estate, I'm going to need to get a mortgage. However, that sort of thing shows up on a credit report. Some group like the tax agencies could see that, contact the mortgage company and get the info on the real-estate. So much for hiding the asset, even if it was titled to another entity like a trust or LLC.

I don't suppose an LLC or trust could get a mortgage loan taken out unless it could prove that it had income of some sort to pay the loan back. (No, I'm avoiding the whole loan-elimination thing for now, until I get the tax thing straight).

Any ideas on how to get around this so that any real-estate doesn't have any papertrail back to the one who lives there? And no, I'm not interested in getting a nominee to take the loan in their name either. Nor am I interested in going the land patent route early on. What I'm trying to find is a way to avoid having anyone be able to link it to me in any way.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[rushpat]

I did see that someone else has this concern and posted a question/answer about it on the howtobeinvisible.com FAQ section:

Mike AZ 34: [10-8] I just closed on the refinance of my home & the head of the title co. said it would've been no problem (titling?) the property in an LLC. He did say someone who really knows what to look for could still find my deeds online.
(Answer by a CA lawyer The problem here is that while the title to the home can be in any name you want, the mortgage is nearly always recorded in the name of the borrower only, overlooking the actual name on title. Any competent PI would be able to trace ownership by means of the mortgage.
If Mike can get a mortgage company willing to record the mortgage in the name of the LLC and NOT record the personal guaranty in the individual names, you would have effectively an untraceable mortgage, at least in the basic public record. That would imply the lender is a small, local bank which keeps their mortgages portfolio and does not sell them in the secondary market, as such a transaction would never pass GNMA or FNMA transfer rules. This would be an extremely valuable tool for privacy advocates. If Mike is willing to post a follow up on how things went, especially if his lender issued the mortgage only in the name of the entity, that would be great.


With today's lax lending standards (an obvious attempt to keep the mortgage boom going), I can imagine that some mortgage companies might be willing to put the mortgage in the name of the LLC if it meant getting the business. I think I'm going to do some asking around to see what some in my area say. This has been my biggest concern, what with the tax agencies causing problems for me as of late.

[Sweed]

It should not be too difficult to get the mortgage in the name of the Trust or LLC. If you have to demonstrate cash flow to support the loan, construct a rental agreement between the Trust/LLC and Rushpat.

[rushpat]

I followed up with the guy who wrote the "How to Be Invisible" book and runs the website. He said that the few times he's heard of people being able to get a mortgage company to put the mortgage in the name of an LLC, required large down payments.

As it becomes harder and harder to keep the mortgage and re-fi booms going, I think we'll see mortgage restrictions fall. I've read that this is already going on, in terms of fudging the numbers to allow people who wouldn't have qualified for loans in decades past to get a mortgage now.

The trick is to keep the newly created money loans going. The mortgage industry is helping keep this economy going by injecting new money into the system, so efforts should continue to keep this going by all means.

[dashboy]

I am very confused as to why Sui Juris folks in the "know" would even consider taking out a mortgage knowing that the banking industry is set up in fraud, and knowing full well that the economics of this country is in its final stages of collapse! Will this be the end? Of course not, but folks should be setting themselves up for really tight times here in the good old' US of A! When the banks get their loans called in, where will they go to get the funds to pay off its own debts? Guess whom! YOU, the person who lives pay check to pay check trying make ends meet and paying a mortgage you cannot even afford in the real world! They are going to call in that loan because from its inception it is all ready in default!

You should be looking at allocating your resources to areas that will have staying power in leans times! Just look at what the rich people are doing vs. what the bobble heads are telling you on the dam Boob Tube! They are not tying up their assets in mortgages but are reallocating them in other types of currencies other than the U.S. dollar! You should be learning how to grow your own food! Take a look at the history of economics in other countries! Look at Venezuela, Chile, and Mexico who all at a time in its own history transferred over to this debt based system leading to its collapse!

Any Man who ties his paycheck-to-paycheck life style into a mortgage at this time is perhaps brainless! The bank will always know where you hide what you owe to it! If anything, you should be looking to sell that home if you are still making payments on it and store up the nest egg you make on it for the coming depression! History repeats itself repeatedly! If I sound like a doom and gloom type, I am sorry, but perhaps it is time to pull the wool from over our eyes!


"There are the Have's and the Have not's! Then there are the Have More's, and these are my people! - President George Bush

[weishaupt1776]

Come on now, dash. The T.V. is telling me that everything's O.K. with economy, but that everything else is in disarray

[macerico]

Taking on a mortgage is a hard issue.

Few have enough money to buy a parcel of property outrightly, and once it is paid off, for all practical purposes, it is yours.

However, in these days, with what we know is coming, choosing to take on a debt obligation is a question of "is this prudent?"

Examples....

1. I just bought a new laptop. I financed it. Knowing what I know, perhaps I shouldn't have. Of course, it's no interest if paid off within 12 months, which I know I will easily do, so I thought it was worth the "risk."

2. I just dumped the idea of pursuing a career as a commercial diver. This site was why I felt uncomfortable with it. I'd have to sign a student loan for 22,000 FRNs and pay interest. At first, it seemed like a worthwhile risk, but after I learned what I learned here, I just didn't like the idea. Pay interest on my own money? Even more, now that I know they are pushing to make everyone have a national ID card starting in 2008, I know that I WILL NOT take one. This was another issue. Someone already working in welding told me that if you make waves, you won't get a job doing anything with oil rigs or pipelines (where most commercial diving is involved).

If I needed a home (or it was cheaper than renting), I would want to do what I see many businesses doing....take out a mortgage in a corporate name. Then, when the poop hits the fan, you vacate the premisis and let the bank have the property. You accept that you are nothing more than a tennant until you pay off the mortgage.

To this end, I'm working on making an LLC that will receive all of my commercial mail IN ITS NAME, not mine. I'll try and get a bank account and credit card IN ITS NAME, not mine, so that if I need such services, I can do it all through the LLC at arm's length. I will eliminate all credit accounts and bank accounts in my name and not accept any mail sent to me other than through the LLC or via General Delivery.

The site www.threeworldwars.com recently urged people to sell their property and liquidate their assets. The suggestion, of course, might not be best for everyone. If you live in the boondocks where BB really couldn't care less about you (I honestly feel that when the poop hits the fan, they will focus physical efforts on the major population centers and deal with rural America later on), dumping your land makes little sense if you own it outright. If you live in the city or the suburbs....you might want to have as much "cash" as you can have and be ready to roll on short notice.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by macerico

To this end, I'm working on making an LLC that will receive all of my commercial mail IN ITS NAME, not mine. I'll try and get a bank account and credit card IN ITS NAME, not mine, so that if I need such services, I can do it all through the LLC at arm's length. I will eliminate all credit accounts and bank accounts in my name and not accept any mail sent to me other than through the LLC or via General Delivery.

Make sure your family sends stuff general delivery. This is so the family names on the return address won't connect you w/the LLC

Also, have a nominee(someone who doesn't have a crack problem, preferably) open the bank accounts and commercial mailing.
Have them put you on as a signatory at both.
Make sure you are not present in the rooms so they can't ask for your ID or SSN

Give explicit instructions to your nominee

[macerico]

I thought of that too.

I actually went as far as to file a NOTICE OF FICTICIOUS NAME in the appropriate places so I can transact business in that name rather than my own without committing a criminal act.

Basically, unless someone wants to go to the courthouse to trace the ficticious name to me, I can open stuff using that name and not have to worry about my name being on it at all.

Nonetheless, I'm going to need to use a go-between to open accounts and PO Box just because they INSIST on seeing an ID.

[rushpat]

Well, I was one of the ones who thought that it wasn't a good idea to get into real-estate, due to the coming (possibly inevitable) housing market collapse. However, I would have thought it would have occurred over 2 years ago. Now, I get the feeling that extraordinary measures will be taken to delay this several more years.

This is the primary reason I was considering getting real-estate, but only with a layer of privacy like titling and mortgaging in another name (like an LLC). Yes, if the stuff hits the fan before I got out, I'd vacate and let the LLC take the fall. No skin off my back, just like renting, right? And if it was delayed long enough, possibly sell to the next sucker in line.

Just toying with this idea for now.