Banks, Collectors, and CRAs Discuss the elimationa of secured and unsecured "debt", as well as tactics for dealing with debt collectors and credit reporting agencies.


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Old 12-18-2006, 02:55 AM
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Customer Identification Program Q&A

Without Prejudice.
This concerns the final rule concerning Customer Identification Programs for U.S. banks in light of the Patriot 4ct. Some of the points are nothing new at all.

Concerning the final rule concerning CIP (this is based on information from the US Treasury themselves!):



1) Do the CIP final rules require photo ID? Photo Identification is not required under CIP. "A photo or similar safeguard" is called for--a signature, an autograph, a thumbprint, a fingerprint or the like, initials, a seal or stamp might suffice as "similar safeguard". Also if the account is being opened for a corporation, trust or the like then the photo ID might be a ID card for the company identifying someone as authorized representative. Accounts are opened for persons/organizations therefore I guess a photograph might identify a representative or an agent or something?

2) Do the CIP rules require some kind of identifying number?
Based on report by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, an identifying number of some sort is required for the customer.

3) Do CIP rules apply to check cashing or wire transfer? An "account" does not include and therefore CIP does not apply to: cashing checks, wire transfers, selling checks of money orders, accounts acquired through bank M&A, accounts for certain employee benefit plans (EIRA Act) because provision of such services is not to "customers". That is those who a U.S. bank provides such services to *ARE NOT* customers and are not subject to CIP.

4) Is my driver license or passport good enough to open an account for a trust or corporation? This is not anything new but if you are applying for a bank account on behalf of or for a trust or corporation, the customer is the trust or corporation not you. The identifying number for a corporation might be its charter number, registration number of file number or it FEIN. If for a driver-person then the DL #.



5) Do all the signatories on an account have to have taxpayer identifying numbers? Signatories on an account are not necessarily the customer or owner of an bank account and therefore identifying numbers are not necessarily required for signatories on accounts.

6) How long does a bank have to keep copies of identification documents? Banks are not required under CIP rules to keep copies of identification used to open accounts (as per burden reduction and Paperwork Reduction Act).

7) Is a date of birth required for opening a bank account? Date of birth is for "individuals". An account opened for a trust or company requires the details of the customer NOT the signatory or agent.

8) If I live in an RV can I use a PO box for opening bank account?
AFO or FPO is OK for addresses. "PO Boxes are apparently no-go". For individuals address of next of kin or other contact person is OK. For organizations physical address or contact person addy.

9) What kind of "identifying number" is required for U.S. citizens? Non-U.S. persons? ID # for US person is TIN. For non-US person number from #ID or govt-issued doc evidencing nationality or residence. Procedures are in place for opening accounts without TINs while TINsare applied for but policies may be in place for closing the account after a period of time.

10) Do banks have to actually put their CIP procedures in writing? A bank's CIP procedures must be in writing. There are documentary and non-documentary verification methods. Credit card companies may use 3rd party sources to verify information.
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Last edited by fulltitle : 12-19-2006 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
3) Do CIP rules apply to check cashing or wire transfer? An "account" does not include and therefore CIP does not apply to: cashing checks, wire transfers, selling checks of money orders, accounts acquired through bank M&A, accounts for certain employee benefit plans (EIRA Act) because provision of such services is not to "customers". That is those who a U.S. bank provides such services to *ARE NOT* customers and are not subject to CIP.

I have only glanced, but something is completely off about this. You are talking about internal policy of U.S. Bank?

There seems to be a distinction about customers. Are people who bank there patrons? Owners? How come the customers at U.S. Bank seem to be the only people who are not making transactions in the accounts?
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
I have only glanced, but something is completely off about this. You are talking about internal policy of U.S. Bank?

There seems to be a distinction about customers. Are people who bank there patrons? Owners? How come the customers at U.S. Bank seem to be the only people who are not making transactions in the accounts?

Without Prejudice.
I didnt mean "U.S. Bank" but the CIP rules and their applicability to U.S. banks. While CIP might not apply in certain situations, FinCEN or something else might apply. I'll see if I can locate a lengthy discussion by the United States Department of the Treasury.
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Last edited by fulltitle : 12-18-2006 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:37 AM
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Thank you, sorry if I read that incorrectly. An explanation from the Treasury would be good.

Here in Colorado a judge is saying the Department of Revenue is incorrect to demand so much ID for Driver Licenses. He is correct but everybody is making out to believe that he is pro- Illegal Immigration and pro- Identity Theft.

When the truth of the matter is that if the birth certificate is not a bank note upon which the private credit is hypothecated, then all one really needs is to pass the written and driving tests to get a license. It really is not tied into the collection of taxes at all.

I learned of this watching the news the other night and they showed one of the Driver License stores and the sign actually read that... "DRIVER LICENSES". I should drive by the outlet attached and see if it was that sign they changed; I couldn't tell from the newsclip. If so, two more points for David Merrill... I will take credit for putting the pressure on the State of Colorado through Suijuris.net.




Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S. I may have missed the post where this came up before...

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/...lrulebanks.pdf
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Last edited by David Merrill : 12-18-2006 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by David Merrill
When the truth of the matter is that if the birth certificate is not a bank note upon which the private credit is hypothecated, then all one really needs is to pass the written and driving tests to get a license. It really is not tied into the collection of taxes at all.

In some places one might be able to obtain the equivalent of a certificate of competency without so much ado. However, it seems rather evident that a "driver license" carries with it the presumption of revenue generation--hey, who knows it might even be far more than just a driver's license.

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Old 12-18-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulltitle
Without Prejudice.
This concerns the final rule concerning US banks' Customer Identification Programs in light of the Patriot 4ct. Some of the points are nothing new at all.

This can be confusing because in California there is a bank named "us bank". They use lower case letters across the whole name to be even more deceptive.

http://www.usbank.com/
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Last edited by ezrhythm : 12-18-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:53 AM
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Without Prejudice.
Revised for clarity.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrhythm
This can be confusing because in California there is a bank named "us bank". They use lower case letters across the whole name to be even more deceptive.

http://www.usbank.com/
Yep!! They are in chicago too. They are one of my client, I don't like them.
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