Starting my foreclosure saga, need your help

[manros]

Well, friends, I have been reading your posts for a while, trying to learn, assimilate. There is so much information to digest, so many ways to attack/defend..I dont know where, how, to get started.

The mortgage company sent me a "presorted mail first class" letter (read no mark on the envelope) I dont know when they really sent it and the postal office tells me they can't tell when they really got it.

The letter is asking the money for the 2 months behind in my payments (true). Unfortunately, because the high taxes and other bad conditions downhere in Florida, I got myself in this trouble.They are talking about foreclosure now.

They lie in the letter by saying I have never being available on the phone. As a matter of fact, they have being calling me on daily basis. I always answer their calls. So far ...polite calls.

The letter makes no reference to a "short sale package" they said they would send me. I have being waiting for that package for weeks already (just to gain time)

An infuriating detail: the letter is dated on the 20th and I am told to answer within the next 5 days. But I got it yesterday or on the 26th!!! (I go to my PO Box every day). It means that I am already past their deadline. Tricky.

Another thing, I have over 100K equity in the home. They always ask me if I live in my home in all the phone conversations.

I dont want to talk to them any more due to the lies.They sent me another letter 2 weeks ago with a non working fax to answer. I had to call them several times to get a working number..sill dont know if that number surely belongs to them or not. I dont know if they got my answer or not (in my answer I made only questions but did not send them the financial statement they wanted me to give them)

In sum, they make it difficult to answer their letters on time.

Another thing, they dont sign their letters. It is always a "customer relations department", no name, no human being I could contact.

I am ready to do all I can against this people. I know about their fraud. But I dont know where or how to get started. As much as possible, I would like an "all flanks" attack and avoid court at all costs. I know court is set to favor their corporate friends.

As of now, I am ready to fight and I am so upset, so afraid of nothing, that I almost fear myself and only myself (of course, I fear the Lord first).

I am old and uneducated, but know how to apply myself.

I forgot the name of the guy who said a "woman's ire overwrites all her fears". I think I reached that stage months ago. But I am holding myself down since there is the need to know how to proceed best or the steps.

I am open to all your suggestions, criticism, etc. I really need you all to help me. I know you dont give any legal advise. So, please, talk to me.

Thanks.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Here's what I did in the same situation-

I rejected all mail. I actually took down my mailbox, and switched the numbers on my house. Where it was "870", to left of me "864" and to the right, "874", my house now displayed, "876". "870" vanished. That confused quite a few even my friends. People are very addicted to numbers. If that's too much then at least take the numbers off your house altogether.

I also rejected or declined any attempts to serve me with papers- I still lived in the house. Just say "I decline your offer". Like they teach in school, "JUST SAY NO".

Any mail you do have mark it "return to sender, undeliverable". If it's already open make a copy for yourself and return it anyway, adding to the above, "open by mistake".

Get rid of your PO BOX. No more mail. If you need a mail location find somewhere else not in your name and keep it private.

The point of the above is to buy some time because then they wil have to get an order to proceed anyway, without service. Keep on top of the court schedule.


Then comes the simple but written part. I filed (means, I went to the county clerk of court recorder office and handed a series of papers with writings on them, with a reference to the foreclosure case in the heading) a document called "affidavit of negative averment". I will post this when I get a chance, but others will have similar forms.

Basically, deny EVERYTHING. It is always your right to deny claims- they have to prove it.

Enter as a 3rd party, use your name which is up to you anyway, noting you are a natural born flesh-and-blood man/woman without legal disability. Without prejudice.

Deny any of the named parties to the suit exist. The bank, the state, the court, the debtor, creditor, anyone. So what if it's wrong, or right? Who cares. Just deny everything.

Only deny the parties standing and capacity to sue or be sued. Dont address whether or not there is any debt-you can do that later. First, one issue and one issue only- deny personhood for any and all parties, including you! No parties, no case.

More later.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

I forgot to add- couldn't you just refinance the whole thing anyway? Even with bad credit there are 70% LTV products out there.

Get copies of your credit report and DENY everything bad. Here is where you are denying debt, but this is outside the court. When you deny a claim the other part has to "verify" it. Statistically 2/3 the time no one bothers. If at first you fail try try again. Every chance you get deny bad info on the report. After improving (hopefully) your credit status some, re-finance the house, or maybe someone else can for you.

maybe this wont help if you are over 70, due to age restrictions on banks. This info could be used to help someone else who would then help you with a mere signature.

You could sell the house.

Many times banks offer some kind of restructuring to take your house out of foreclosure.

There are state aid programs, social services.

The tax issue is a doozy because of course that makes it harder to pay for the place. You could apply for an exemption, since the property is being used to house the homeless (you). Get the form from the county office and if you need help post here.

And there is bankruptcy- this might help the most.

first ask for the re-structuring type of bankruptcy.

That gives you a payment plan.

If that doesnt suit you, let it ride, same thing all over agin, they have to serve you, etc. Tie them up with the process.

then file for total bankruptcy. When the bank obtains exclusion from this process let it drop and start all over in another federal district. New address, new case.

There are so many ways to delay, and time is on your side. The most important thing is to get the most you can out of your property. I dont know how much your payments are but how long would it take to burn all the equity from your house?

[manros]

Thank you, "farmer giles of ham", you are full of ideas.

I need to find out what "total" bankrupcy means, should I go that route. I will prefer to refinance, as you suggest...but then, HOW DID YOU DENY THE NEGATIVE ENTRIES IN YOUR CREDIT REPORTS? Did the bureaus remove the bad entries against you, just because you denied them?

How is it you can live in your own home as a "homeless"? It sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. How do you go about it? What kind of form is that to claim that type of "exemption"?

When you have time, please, provide me with a copy of your "Affidavit of negative averment".. the download section of this site does not work. That is something I should enter only after they start the foreclosure, right? Or should I do it before?.. I mean, I should file that into their case, and not independently ..Is it? Good to know we are allow to file papers into the very court cases they open against us. I did not know we have that right .

Any way, I got the main idea very clearly. I should separate myself from the corporate being they invented to hurt me. Thanks one million.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

I will be posting just such an affidavit, fill-in-the-blank style, try to get to it this weekend.

I am a little short on the exact terminology. By "total bankruptcy" I mean "chapter 9" (I think that's what its called). It's that there are 2 standard type bankruptcy options, each designated by a the chapter of the law code wherein they are found. Chapter 11 is the payment plan one where a schedule is made to 'catch-up' with the situation. Chapter 9 is the 'total' option- gather up all property and divvy up accordingly. The point is to string it along for as much as possible.

BTW- try to proceed in court, 'in forma pauperis'. Ask the clerk about it. It means they have to pay all the fees and paperwork.

If you can refinance then by all means do so! Yes, the credit bureaus will remove negative entries just because the challenge is made. It's basic commerce- whoever makes a claim has to "verify" it. It's like tennis, back and forth. Bad info will pop up again, even after it has been removed. Nobody cares, it just a big machine, you have to keep on top of it. Deny deny deny.

There was (5 years ago) and may still be, a service out there that for a small fee every year did all this for you, sent constant letters out and fought everything tooth and nail (actually they just sent letters out, that's "fighting tooth and nail" in this lame world. It's all paper)

The status "homeless shelter" applies to the house- not you. It's not personal, real estate taxes never are personal (although the bill is sent to the owner of record as a matter of convenience). It doesn't matter who lives in the house, the exemption requested is for a property used to shelter the homeless. People live in homeless shelters because they are homeless, as you might be if you lose this house. Dont sweat it, it's just a box to check off on a form or a blank to fill in- "just a formality".

The form for this is something you need to obtain from the county office- start with the tax dept and ask about how to apply for an exemption. Many properties are already exempted- institutions etc.

(thats a trick the big money uses to 'hide in plain sight'- call it non profit. The biggest nonprofit but very profitable estate is the USA INC- and it's all exempt!)

The worst that can happen is your request is denied. Appeal it, make noise bother people. Who knows- maybe some one will stamp "approved" on the application.

There are many many public programs to help homeowners in distress, tax relief etc look into it. One dude in PA got some kind of subsidy for 8 years where he only had to pay 50 bux a month. Get on welfare, anything. Other subsidies, etc

Yes you file your paperwork into the case that THEY make. Let them do the work. It's your answer to their claim, just like with the credit bureau.

Besides being the correct legal move to make, here is the result in my experience-

every time you make this denial they are (in theory) required to answer it, point for pont (rebut). But they will NOT EVER answer it, because it opens up too many cans, so to speak. So the bank's attorney will instead file his own paperwork, asking to start the case again over, fresh. In my case it was called a PRAECIPE FOR NEW CASE or something like that. It just means, "start over, no answer, ignore everything prior".

Which is fine, because then you wil file the same document as the first time, tit-for-tat. I went on a year like this and it was only because I had other personal reasons to leave the area that it ended; who knows how long it would have gone on like this. Their PRAECIPE was always met by my JUDICIAL NOTICE.

Just like the credit bureaus; you never win, but the game keeps getting reset to zero. You main objective as I see it is to maximize your position in the property- keep it as long as possible without paying.

Of course if you could just refinance it that would be easier. You should be able to get, with average credit, a new "loan" for 80% of the appraised value of the house, with negative amortization for the first 5 years- that means some of the interest is folded into the principal (which therefore grows every month)- which means a lower monthly payment for a while.

If you get your credit together you can pull out mucho credito, from cards, personal loans, lines of credit.

A line of credit is best for the house because they are often more generous overall and you only pay the interest. If you get enough financing (in any case)- there is your monthly payment, right out of the monies you "borrowed".

Its all about skimming and surfing.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

BTW- its not only one route, it's ALL of them. The tactics I suggested, many of them, are complementary. Need time ? File bankruptcy. Case stalled? Let it ride. Refinance, get a subsidy, stop paying. Reject service, play tit-for-tat, file bankruptcy again. Start process all over in another bankruptcy district. Etc.

If you are lucky the bank will sell the loan to another collecter and you get to start from zero.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

accidental re-post

[oneman]

Originally Posted by manros

Well, friends, I have been reading your posts for a while, trying to learn, assimilate. There is so much information to digest, so many ways to attack/defend..I dont know where, how, to get started.

The mortgage company sent me a "presorted mail first class" letter (read no mark on the envelope) I dont know when they really sent it and the postal office tells me they can't tell when they really got it.

The letter is asking the money for the 2 months behind in my payments (true). Unfortunately, because the high taxes and other bad conditions downhere in Florida, I got myself in this trouble.They are talking about foreclosure now.

They lie in the letter by saying I have never being available on the phone. As a matter of fact, they have being calling me on daily basis. I always answer their calls. So far ...polite calls.

The letter makes no reference to a "short sale package" they said they would send me. I have being waiting for that package for weeks already (just to gain time)

An infuriating detail: the letter is dated on the 20th and I am told to answer within the next 5 days. But I got it yesterday or on the 26th!!! (I go to my PO Box every day). It means that I am already past their deadline. Tricky.

Another thing, I have over 100K equity in the home. They always ask me if I live in my home in all the phone conversations.

I dont want to talk to them any more due to the lies.They sent me another letter 2 weeks ago with a non working fax to answer. I had to call them several times to get a working number..sill dont know if that number surely belongs to them or not. I dont know if they got my answer or not (in my answer I made only questions but did not send them the financial statement they wanted me to give them)

In sum, they make it difficult to answer their letters on time.

Another thing, they dont sign their letters. It is always a "customer relations department", no name, no human being I could contact.

I am ready to do all I can against this people. I know about their fraud. But I dont know where or how to get started. As much as possible, I would like an "all flanks" attack and avoid court at all costs. I know court is set to favor their corporate friends.

As of now, I am ready to fight and I am so upset, so afraid of nothing, that I almost fear myself and only myself (of course, I fear the Lord first).

I am old and uneducated, but know how to apply myself.

I forgot the name of the guy who said a "woman's ire overwrites all her fears". I think I reached that stage months ago. But I am holding myself down since there is the need to know how to proceed best or the steps.

I am open to all your suggestions, criticism, etc. I really need you all to help me. I know you dont give any legal advise. So, please, talk to me.

Thanks.

You need to start the commercial addidavit process using a notary. Also known as the notorial protest. This way you have evidence when you get to court. If you haven't had time to finish it or even start it and end up in court just tell the judge you haven't exhausted all your administrative remedies yet. Ask for 120 days.

Another approach is to obtain a Winston Shrout seminar that deals with IRS liquidation. You actually direct the IRS to liquidate the mortgage and they go collect. Now since the credit is there with the debt, the bank has to balance its books. This leaves the account with a 0 balance. You can then go further and ask for summary judgement for title. It is now yours.

[joseph sugarman]

Please provide copies of all your filings and all signed judgments to show this process has worked for you.

[BOBT12]

http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/arti..._Boyko/01.html

Deutsche Bank Foreclosures Tossed Out of Ohio Federal Court - "They Own Nothing!"

11-12-2007

by Moe Bedard and Aaron Krowne

Judge Christopher A. Boyko of the Eastern Ohio United States District Court, on October 31, 2007 dismissed 14 Deutsche Bank-filed foreclosures in a ruling based on lack of standing for not owning/holding the mortgage loan at the time the lawsuits were filed.

See link....

This may be worthy of investigation.

Of course, given the fact that the money players have much at risk, I suppose this case will be appealed vigorously.