CC debt...my action plan...your suggestions...

Originally Posted by mrg

OK:

You have 3 credit cards?

One is in a debt elimination program and you are making payments as per the program guidelines?

The other two you are making regular monthly payments of $50 to $80 on each one?

The two that you are making regular monthly payments of $50 to $80 on have been sent to collection agencies?

Is this correct?

All three (3) are in collections...the ONE card I expected to have problems with accepted the program without a hitch and even sent a nice letter congradulating me.

The other two are in collections and are willing to accept payments through the program, only I don't recieve any benefits. So, since I'm not going to recieve any benefits from these two cards, I've taken them off the plan and am paying them the same monthly amount, that they were going to accept through the program, which was around $86.00.

IF I can keep them at bay until my tax returns next year I was going to offer them all a settlement.

Originally Posted by mrg

OK:

You have 3 credit cards?

One is in a debt elimination program and you are making payments as per the program guidelines?

The other two you are making regular monthly payments of $50 to $80 on each one?

The two that you are making regular monthly payments of $50 to $80 on have been sent to collection agencies?

Is this correct?

All three (3) are in collections...the ONE card I expected to have problems with accepted the program without a hitch and even sent a nice letter congradulating me.

The other two are in collections and are willing to accept payments through the program, only I don't recieve any benefits. So, since I'm not going to recieve any benefits from these two cards, I've taken them off the plan and am paying them the same monthly amount, that they were going to accept through the program, which was around $86.00.

IF I can keep them at bay until my tax returns next year I was going to offer them all a settlement.

Originally Posted by Livefire

Friends,

What I suggested may not work across the board in every state. That attorney can only speak for the jurisdiction in which he is licensed to practice his dark art in. Besides, how do you know he isnt a troll on that forum. There was an instance about a year ago here on SJ where a debt collection agency was gathering intelligence on a member here. The member in question was kaptnjack.

As to the situation presented here, one could demand validation of the debt. This creates the documented controversy, THEN make your offers via certified letter stating your offer and terms. This payment constitutes payment in full under UCC 3-311. You also agree to report this obligation as satisfied to the credit bureaus. You also agree not to sell off any alleged remaing balance to other collection agencies or buyers of so called "bad debt". You agree that violation of any of the above terms will subject you to pay triple damages. Get creative!!!

After they cash the check, get proof of that from the bank. If the fools keep harassing you....YOU file suit in the circuit or district court for breach of contract and after you get your judgement the fun begins. Get the appropriate writ, go to the local sheriff and have him padlock the doors of the agencies business til they pay you! :-D

Just make sure you check out the laws of your state, especially their version of the UCC. What Im suggesting would be a rough outline of how to proceed in Michigan.

http://www.weissandassoc.com/article...isfaction.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-311.html

Thanks for the info Livefire, the above scenario is what my plans are when I can get enough funds together. I don't see why it wouldn't work for an everyday Joe as myself, if these guys don't read the 'fine print'.

The only thing is that if they accept my check they could treat the remaining debt as income by the IRS and send me a 1099 for the remaing amount. This would be taxable income.

[masterduke]

Originally Posted by Livefire

I think some research might done concerning accord and satisfaction. Using the state laws of MI.....If you send a payment with the verbiage "Payment In Full" notoriously written on the check, money order....then the debt is extinguished. Of course, a letter explaining that you have questions concerning the matter and this is your attempt to settle the matter will go a long way if you have to fight in court. If the instrument is cashed, the debt is history!!! Doesnt matter if the fools cross out the statement in an attempt to novate your offer. Check out this collection attorney site! :-D

http://www.michiganconstructionlaw.n...News/News6.asp

http://courts.michigan.gov/supremeco...erm/126958.pdf

If you read the current cc agreements when recieving a new card they now contain sentences/paragraphs that state they do not accept any of those sort of 'accord and satisfaction' written endorsements on checks sent to them. Since these payment address' are usually just sent to some check clearing facility. Some people have been able to prevail. But that debt collector group NARCA Is lobbying(greasing) assorted lawmakers to get rulings like this overturned. And they are attempting to get new rules and laws enacted to make it even easier for them to screw consumers at an even faster pace. Arbitration is just a first step in this this brave new world of credit and debt collection practices.......

[masterduke]

Originally Posted by mayot

Thanks for the info Livefire, the above scenario is what my plans are when I can get enough funds together. I don't see why it wouldn't work for an everyday Joe as myself, if these guys don't read the 'fine print'.

The only thing is that if they accept my check they could treat the remaining debt as income by the IRS and send me a 1099 for the remaing amount. This would be taxable income.

If they send you a 1099 they are breaking the law. This is something consumer advocate attorneys go after these weasels for. Check with a consumer advocate attorney and ask them what they think of that ploy?

My wife received a phone call last night in regards to a Sears account that's in Collections. The Debt has been sold. The lady offered my wife a ‘hardship’ plan, pay $xxx amount in 3 monthly installments and the account will be brought to ‘current’ status and all interest will cease. Then I will owe $100 dollars a month thereafter. My wife told them that she’d run the proposal by me and I’ll call the next day.

I called and verified the proposal and I requested the proposal be sent to me in writing for my records. The representative said no problem and suddenly I was on hold and the rep’s supervisor informed me that it was against the agreement they have with Sears and Government policy that no such proposal be in writing. And that they were DOING me a Favor out of the goodness of their heart. I ask if her company owed the debt, and they do, so I ask why she needed Sears’ approval. Just send me the proposal and I'll start the payments.

She got irate and asked why ‘you people’ demand so much, when you never pay your debt. I told her I want to and just send me the proposal in writing! She terminated the call.

I wrote the CA a letter, but have yet to mail it, asking that since the proposal that offered was refused in writing; I request the debt be validated.

I’m nervous, well kinda excited about putting what I’ve learned to use, but should I send the letter or should I seek legal counsel first?

[masterduke]

Sending those weasels any payments, in their brain, puts you on the hook for an 'account stated' and 're-ages' the debt so they can continue to harrass you for an even longer period of time. They don't want you to have anything in writing since that would put them on the hook. When they get greedy and start to demand more money or else(showing that the 'contract' was contrived in bad faith to begin with) from you. Look into the avenue of No Prior Course of Dealing. This effectivly challenges their account stated crap. And can set the stage for a counterclaim of Unjust Enrichment. There pal in the robe will allow them to get away with this unless you know how to challenge it in court. And even then they may pull any number of dirty tricks. Stop talking to them by phone. Mail correspondance only. Although they will 'sell/assign' you off to some debt collector attorney scum quicker when they can't badger you over the phone. at least you won't have to waste your time with some nit-wit bill collector hanging you on the phone.

[mrg]

I have found references on my "credit report" that some third party interloper has "reported that I have recently made "payment" on a couple of ancient "debts."

I, myself, have not made any such "payment."

The lowest of the low.

They don't call them bottomfeeders for nothing.

[macerico]

Here's my 2 cents. I've looked over your thread, and while I have no great solutions, I'm just making observations for you to think upon.

Biblically, Christians are only obligated to pay their HONEST debts. If the "debt elimination" plan you were considering is the same one I was looking at, they emphasize (1) that the lending of credit is illegal and a fraud upon which the creditor cannot prosper from and (2) that once you know about this fraud, you can use the knowledge to free yourself from past debts, but all debt from that point forward is your responsibility because you have "unclean hands" (or that now that you know the truth, you should not agree to participate in a fraudulent scheme).

If the money you owe is done with "clean hands" on your part, there is nothing immoral about invoking the protection of law (the same law they use to enslave you) to nullify your bondage.

Just my POV on that issue.

The problem with a "settlement check" concept is that is universally will not work. You must have a signed agreement on paper stating that for X percent of the owed debt, they will consider the whole amount satisfied. This must be negotiated and put in writing so that you can legally refuse to pay anything more once your part is performed and can defend against further claims both in court and on your credit report.

Debt management companies get their operating capital from credit card companies (largest provider). Their job is to get you to pay every penny. I doubt they will be willing to compromise the amount owed. Maybe freeze further interest, but not give a reduction in what is owed.

Since you seem inclined to stay with the mainstream solutions, you would be 1,000% better served to file Chapter 13 bankruptcy where you come up with a payment plan for the unsecured creditors and after 3-5 years, that is ALL they can get. You'll be done paying sooner and with more legal certainty than what you are currently proposing.

Unless, of course, you manage to get your creditors to agree to take a percentage settlement on their claims in writing.

Originally Posted by macerico

Biblically, Christians are only obligated to pay their HONEST debts. If the "debt elimination" plan you were considering is the same one I was looking at,

Thanks for the response

To clarify, the program is through A New Horizon and it’s a debt counseling service, not elimination. If the accounts accept the plan, then the benefits for me is a suspended interest rate, the account current and I make payments for 3 years or I can payoff sooner. The amount I owe monthly is a percentage of the total debt.

I have 3 debts and only one accepted the plan. So I have to deal with the other two.

One of the debts is in my wife’s name and a company called “National Financial Systems (NFS)” from NY has bought the debt. They offered me a ‘hardship’ plan to get my account current in 3 months…I asked for the ‘verbal’ proposal in writing and the manager with ballistic on me.

It’s also interesting to know that NFS in 1999 was hit with a 20,000 dollar fine for violating Federal Statutes and over the past two days, they may have broken at least 3 with me.

I just don’t know what course of action to take. I’ve read these boards and others and books, but every case is different.

I have two letters:
One to request them to validate the debt or one asking the proposal is in writing.

I may have them validate the debt first and if they can’t attack it from that angle and if they can (not sure how to know if they properly validated the debt), attack the proposal offer or settlement offer in writing.

Thing is I don’t have any extra money just laying around, not until I do my Taxes next year and get the return.

Originally Posted by macerico

Since you seem inclined to stay with the mainstream solutions, you would be 1,000% better served to file Chapter 13 bankruptcy where you come up with a payment plan for the unsecured creditors and after 3-5 years, that is ALL they can get.

I’ve thought about such bankruptcy, but my wife is totally against it, even though our credit is already taking a hit.

In regards to the unorthodox solutions, I guess you can say; I’m still plugged into the Matrix and am just waiting to be “freed”, only I need some help…where’s my red pill!!!