Banking For Muggles 101, The Par Value Of A Dollar

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

This phrase from post #1
from post #1 is an indirect variation from the phrase found in the piece usually titled "Notes of Debt are Not Income" here:
http://www.commonlawvenue.com/Misc/2...t%20Income.pdf

Notes of debt are not income is a good article but does not understand the 'why' ... The check still represents income, however the certified copy of the endorsement is evidence of a loss that offsets the income making the net taxable income zero. The author did not understand this because they did not understand the par value of money.

One error above; calling a measured quantity of silver a "dollar" and a different measured quantity of gold also a "dollar" will get you in trouble with Gresham's law every time. Gresham's law is based on natural law, and no man written set of rules can over ride natural law. Congress could write a law that says men can fly by flapping their arms and some men might jump off tall buildings, but natural law says men cannot fly. Gresham's law exposition by Robert Mundell: http://www.columbia.edu/~ram15/grash.html

I suggest you read carefully the Professor Auriti piece on the Induction of Value to Money and the Ownership Thereof found on the gold is money forum: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=100359 along with subsequent discussion.

Levi Philos

I suggest you actually learn the facts. 1. The legal value of a dollar is 0.02368422299169631141911127321646 ounces of gold pursuant to Title 31. 2. The government cannot compel you to pay in gold if you have their credit tokens or other credit issued by their receiver, the Federal Reserve system. 3. A creditor cannot accept your credit for value one day when you sign the mortgage, and then deny your credit later while still pretending your previous credit has value. 4. Unlike the Federal Reserve as the receiver of the bankruptcy of the United States, your credit is not good for payment of taxes and this is why the bill of exchange people that pretend their credit must be accepted by the treasury go to prison - nevertheless, you credit is still good for your debts.

Of course Gresham's law is valid but has nothing to do with your point. Would you pay a debt with gold coins when the creditor has to accept Federal Reserve notes?

Only gold and silver are money. The value of pure gold is $42.2222 per ounce and the value of pure silver is $1.29292929 per ounce.

You can pay your taxes with gold and silver coins issued by the treasury. Money is denominated in gold since 1873, and silver can be used in it's place just like treasury base metal tokens or the credits of the Federal Reserve system.

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

"Dollar" - The Name and Usage

The word "dollar" was historically associated with silver coins, not gold. Here are a couple of citations.

And silver was effectively demonetized in 1873 with the passage of the Coinage Act of 1873, popularly called the 'Crime of 1873' by the farmers ruined by the deflation caused with the demonetization of half the country's money supply.

http://coinschool.blogspot.com/

The word "dollar" is derived from Low Saxon "daler", an abbreviation of "Joachimsdaler" – (coin) from Joachimstal – so called because it was minted from 1519 onwards using silver extracted from a mine which had opened in 1516 near Joachimstal, a town in the Ore Mountains of northwestern Bohemia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._States_dollar

The weight of silver in the dollar coins varied widely over time and place; the earliest "taler" (sometimes "thaler") coins (in Scandinavian countries "daler") were about 8 grams, the Spanish created the milled "dollar" with the edge reeds to prevent scraping of the edges; and the first US dollar was about one ounce - 31 grams more or less. The Hanseatic League who were businessmen of northern Europe settled their accounts using the silver coinage and this spread down to Spain and over to the new country - the north American states. http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/dollar.html

They were actually called 'thallers' and were legal tender at one point.

Douglas Gnazzo wrote a five part series in 2005 that says basically that silver is the lawful money of the states and gold was only priced in relationship to silver.
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver1.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver2.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver3.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver4.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver5.html

Again, this was prior to the Coinage Act of 1873, although silver was effectively remonetized in 1933 while the value of the dollar was still denominated in gold. Once the market price of silver was higher than it's corresponding gold value, the silver coinage disappeared.

Here is a little thing I have been repeating lately; "Paper money cannot hold value, paper money can only serve as a title instrument or warehouse receipt describing where the value is held."

Correct, however there is no such thing as paper money. Paper is a note for a money denominated credit, the differences are important. The question is - WHAT IS THE LEGAL GOLD VALUE OF THE DOLLAR THAT THE PAPER CURRENCY CAN BE USED AS A SUBSTITUTE?

Credit instruments based upon unbacked paper are then given value by the people who back it with their products and their intellectual and physical labor.

But at what value as denominated in gold?

The people become the final creditors when the banks fail to back the credit entries. Compare to this Barefoot Bob piece: http://www.barefootsworld.net/usfraud.html

Levi Philos

Yes, the full 'faith and credit' (faith meaning substance and credit meaning promise to accept) backs the gold dollar denominated currency paper or book entry. What you have not been able to understand so far is that the value of this full 'faith and credit' is denominated in terms of gold at $42.2222 per ounce. The fraud is that the government and banks pretend that their credit is worth much more gold than it really is. Since Federal Reserve is the receiver of the bankruptcy, then they are the legal title holder to the United States and any entity incorporated thereunder and thus everything is valued in terms of gold dollars. If a car dealership with a taxpayer identification number (which is valuable consideration in a contract under admiralty jurisdiction) owns a car valued in dollars at $42,222.20 - then the government and Federal Reserve banks consider the car to be worth a value of 1000 ounces of gold. With the current gold price around $840 per ounce, their credit is really worth around five cents on the dollar, however everyone accepts Federal Reserve notes and other government tax credits for par when they are really worth five cents on the dollar.

[mrg]

How, precisely and with specific particularity does "faith" mean "substance?

How, precisely and with specific particularity does "credit" mean "promise to accept?"

Where, precisely, and with specific particularity does the phrase "full faith and credit" come from?

Federal Reserve documentation precisely defines "cedit" as "the postponement of the payment of money." Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond Your Money p18.

Who, precisely, are these specific "bill of exchange people that pretend their [postponement of the payment of money] must be accepted by the treasury" that have gone "to jail?"

Could you explain the precise mechanics, with specific particularity, of the pretense that "their [postponement of the payment of money] must be accepted by the treasury?"

What do you mean by "the treasury?"

Is there a physical treasury?

What substance is treasured therein?

Where is any storage treasury physically located?

[Levi Philos]

William Jennings Bryan gave his famous speech where the phrase "You shall not press upon the bow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold" at a Democratic convention in the year 1896. This was a direct result of the 1873 coinage act. You can see a U-Tube recording of this speech here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeTkT5-w5RA Three minutes, twenty nine seconds. Other places have the transcript.

Yamaguchy netfirms has the book written in 1899 titled "The Coming Battle" by Martin Walbert where the central discussion is over whether gold or silver is a better backing for money: http://www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com/78...ert_index.html Other Yamaguchy books include several by Eustace Mullins, Cooglan, and another famous book BABYLONIAN WOE by David Astle. See: http://www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com/

Dayspring Gatherings has a bunch of old books on banking, law, and early history of the formation of the united States. These books are all pdf scanned image files, so some of the downloads are quite large: http://www.dayspringgatherings.org/m...king__law.html

The Wizard of Money series (mp3 audio files) and pdf transcripts are found here: http://www.altruists.org/downloads/by_subject/money/ along with a bunch of related material.

Slave Revolt has the MONEY MASTERS video as well as other related material: http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/s...t_finance.html

More links: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=165530

It is my belief that if any single element shall stand symbolically to represent all of the commodities, products, and intellectual and physical labor of the people, then that element should be silver. However, if paper is to circulate as well as electronic records and money is truly a communication, then money is potentially unlimited and the cost of money should be very low. The cost of money that exists as a communication is really the cost of providing adequate security to the communication such that specific performance of contract is guaranteed.

Levi Philos

[Levi Philos]

Incidentally, I believe there is a typo in your signature address at the Kitko thread:

"141 West Jackon Suite 2921 (44) 207.669.0170 London"

That is Jackson - isn't it?

LP

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by mandalisj

In 1913 the banks were not willing to continue extending credit to the United States government without a monopoly on tax credits.

It might appear then that a monopoly on tax credits is the root of all evil.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

One error above; calling a measured quantity of silver a "dollar" and a different measured quantity of gold also a "dollar" will get you in trouble with Gresham's law every time. Gresham's law is based on natural law, and no man written set of rules can over ride natural law. Congress could write a law that says men can fly by flapping their arms and some men might jump off tall buildings, but natural law says men cannot fly. Gresham's law exposition by Robert Mundell: http://www.columbia.edu/~ram15/grash.html

Robert Mundell is the guy who came up w/ the idea for the euro, no?

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by mrg

How, precisely and with specific particularity does "faith" mean "substance?

anything owned by any entity with a taxpayer identification number is the substance or 'faith' pledged in the bankruptcy ...

How, precisely and with specific particularity does "credit" mean "promise to accept?"

your credit is something you accept instead of money ... like a gift certificate you issued ...

Where, precisely, and with specific particularity does the phrase "full faith and credit" come from?

the government ... why don't you try looking something up for yourself for a change?

Federal Reserve documentation precisely defines "cedit" as "the postponement of the payment of money." Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond Your Money p18.

yes in a sense, if you have tax credits issued by the treasury or Federal Reserve you do not have to come up with the gold ... the idea that you have to pay at a future date is erroneous ...

Who, precisely, are these specific "bill of exchange people that pretend their [postponement of the payment of money] must be accepted by the treasury" that have gone "to jail?"

there are plenty ... try searching for 'bill of exchange' ... if you are unfamiliar with these topics it isn't my fault ...

Could you explain the precise mechanics, with specific particularity, of the pretense that "their [postponement of the payment of money] must be accepted by the treasury?"

they have to take the little green stamps on the Federal Reserve notes instead of making you come up with gold coins ...

What do you mean by "the treasury?"

the one issuing the little green stamps on Federal Reserve notes, the actual Department of Treasury of the United States ...

Is there a physical treasury?

and a physical ATF agents with physical guns ...

What substance is treasured therein?

'treasured' is not a verb ... the substance pledged as faith to the credit of the United States includes all property owned by any entity with a taxpayer identification number ...

Where is any storage treasury physically located?

the gold is at Fort Knox and West Point ... however because there is not enough gold then everything else is also part of this substance backing the national debt ... however the legal value of everything is considered as good as gold at $42.2222 per ounce ...

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by Levi Philos

Incidentally, I believe there is a typo in your signature address at the Kitko thread:

"141 West Jackon Suite 2921 (44) 207.669.0170 London"

That is Jackson - isn't it?

LP

Incidentally, I believe you are a pervert that cannot discuss an issue without bringing personal things into it ... try the facts instead ...

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by psholtz

It might appear then that a monopoly on tax credits is the root of all evil.

That's the most intelligent thing I have heard on this forum.