Banking For Muggles 101, The Par Value Of A Dollar

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

today, every 42 or so bux is worth about 6% of one ounce, and thats dropping mightily fast, headed for no more than 2%.

But we do get some value, like the ability to exchange. The credit-reserves are just a monetized representation of the economy.The only real problem,as I see it, is amortization.

On the broad, general level, the volume of debt/credit always grows, by at least as much as any interest and costs. So in reality, things are staying even-the money issued represents whatever it can buy, subject to float.

Re-payment/amortization is just very cumbersome extra-pointless wheel-spinning. The bigger picture is that we are in an increasingly advanced, social economy, but we still consume and do business like early capitalists, personal credit, individual taxation, employment, etc.

The average real property is about 10% title-value, and about 90% equity. How many goods and services naturally lend themselves to be secured against the value of real estate? All utilities and public services, infrastructure, communications, transportation, to begin with.

A good house, with all the amenities described above, should cost maybe 10% of what it does today. This used to be called "quit-rent", where a new tenant would take possession of a land that bore a fixed yearly tax (which ate up most of the total value anyway), paying the difference in market-price to the previous holder.

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham

today, every 42 or so bux is worth about 6% of one ounce, and thats dropping mightily fast, headed for no more than 2%.

Congratulations, you know the secret.

But we do get some value, like the ability to exchange.

Correct, we do get SOME value. However SOME VALUE is not PAR VALUE and hence if the lender has notice of that fact (the price of gold in the paper) they cannot be a holder of due course.

The credit-reserves are just a monetized representation of the economy.The only real problem,as I see it, is amortization.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by amortization. I would assume you are referring to how all currency is loaned into circulation so the principal is created but never the interest forcing foreclosures. The bankers will tell you it's fine because there is always new currency being loaned into circulation to service the old debts, however this inflation in the quantity of circulation causes price inflation ... what the Federal Reserve calls 'targeted inflation' ... I do agree that this is a significant point and the other big secret about the financial industry along with gold par value and inland admiralty. Nevertheless, it is not exactly the topic of this thread and I want to keep on point so things don't get confusing. The major point I wanted to make was, that because CREDIT is not loaned FOR VALUE, the lender can never be a holder of due course.

On the broad, general level, the volume of debt/credit always grows, by at least as much as any interest and costs.

Theoretically, if 'targeted inflation' is successful. Right now however the world is facing the largest deflationary threat ever, one that encompasses the entire world financial system and not just a single country or trading bloc like in historical deflationary collapses.

So in reality, things are staying even-the money issued represents whatever it can buy, subject to float.

About six cents on the par dollar worth, as you said above?

Technically, because there is not enough gold 'all the goods and services in the economy' what is legally called the 'faith and credit' of the country backs the currency. However, based on the par value of the gold dollar, it's drastically overvalued.

Re-payment/amortization is just very cumbersome extra-pointless wheel-spinning. The bigger picture is that we are in an increasingly advanced, social economy, but we still consume and do business like early capitalists, personal credit, individual taxation, employment, etc.

I wouldn't use commie terms like 'social' or 'capitalist' ... As a descendant of English ancestry, I would say that the modern system with the pledge of 'faith and credit' to the central bank is more of a modern feudal system. The parents pledge their child to the state (and it's owners) with the affidavit (trust declaration) they sign for the birth certificate. The adult pledges the legal right to the rewards of their labor earned by working for companies chartered under the bankrupt state with their application for a taxpayer identification number. Everything 'modern' is really all based on the feudal system, except now corporations both for profit and governmental have lordship over the serfs and vassals.

The average real property is about 10% title-value, and about 90% equity. How many goods and services naturally lend themselves to be secured against the value of real estate? All utilities and public services, infrastructure, communications, transportation, to begin with.

Banks will only lend against real estate which is part of why it is now overvalued. Property prices cannot increase unless incomes increase, and that causes increases in price inflation.

A good house, with all the amenities described above, should cost maybe 10% of what it does today. This used to be called "quit-rent", where a new tenant would take possession of a land that bore a fixed yearly tax (which ate up most of the total value anyway), paying the difference in market-price to the previous holder.

Americans cannot buy property, they buy a pin number that gives them EQUITABLE TITLE allowing beneficial use while LEGAL TITLE remains held by the county. The English would call it a one year lease hold. Go ahead and stop paying your taxes (rent) and you will see who really owns the property. Again, while relevant, it's distracting from the topic of the par value of money and I am happy to discuss the issue in another thread.

Many have had many successes regarding their mortgages. Nevertheless, the 'why' behind it that is usually never understood is that the lender must be able to prove that it lent 'valuable consideration' based on the par value of dollars at $42.2222 per ounce of gold. Also, because nobody can be compelled to repay debts in gold coin, they have to accept YOUR CREDIT AGAIN since they already did before.

[mrg]

mandalisj,

What do you mean by:

'all the goods and services in the economy' what is legally called the 'faith and credit' of the country backs the currency.

and where is the 'legality" to be found?


Good info you are bringing, thanks a lot.

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

mandalisj:

However SOME VALUE is not PAR VALUE and hence if the lender has notice of that fact (the price of gold in the paper) they cannot be a holder of due course.

So how would you frame the difference in "par value" and "some value" as an argument in court? Just a simple list of basic points.

mandalisj:

Also, because nobody can be compelled to repay debts in gold coin, they have to accept YOUR CREDIT AGAIN since they already did before.

Maybe you could frame that argument as well.



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note- By amortization I mean paying down the credit. The same way the word is used in ordinary business.

I was pointing out that "true-zero amortization" means, mathematically, that the 'Loan-To-Value' stays at a constant %. If the mortgage 'floated' at a fixed % of property value, there would be nothing to pay, since the inflation is more than equal to the interest.

With no taxes or fees to pay, the value of properties would be even higher, providing even more basis for the liens due these items. But this is a different topic:

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/banks-...tml#post125510

I wouldn't use commie terms like 'social' or 'capitalist' ... As a descendant of English ancestry, I would say that the modern system with the pledge of 'faith and credit' to the central bank is more of a modern feudal system.

Hey, I like Marx! Very succinct and pithy analysis, and sometimes really funny. Sociological thinking is a way of understanding what goes on. Feudalism leads to Capitalism, which leads to So******m, which leads to Communism. These are the changing forms of an historic evolution. Yes, it looks like Feudalism, because it IS Feudalism. Only now it's called somewhere in between Capitalism and So******m. Its like a sliding scale or progression. Old wine, new bottles. Nothing new under the sun.

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by mrg

mandalisj,

What do you mean by:



and where is the 'legality" to be found?


Good info you are bringing, thanks a lot.

Since we are no longer on a gold redemption standard, 'the faith and credit' of the United States backs the currency. There is extensive information out there about this even in traditional central banking literature.

Contrary to popular belief, we are still on a gold exchange standard with a par value of $42.2222 per ounce. Everything is legally valued at this rate. If you have a house worth $422,222.00 it is legally considered worth a value of 10,000 ounces of pure gold in accordance with the above United States Code citations from my first post.

[mandalisj]

Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham

So how would you frame the difference in "par value" and "some value" as an argument in court? Just a simple list of basic points.

Look up the requirements of a holder in due course. They must pay value. The value of your promise is measured in gold at $42.2222, the value of their credit is not worth as much since the market price of gold is higher. Price and value are independent, contrary to what your banker wants you to believe.

Go re-read my post from the beginning slowly. You need to understand that the 'value' of a dollar is not an arbitrary concept, it is an actual measure in gold at $42.2222 per ounce. Just look at the Federal Reserve balance sheet at their gold valuation.

----------------------------------------------------
note- By amortization I mean paying down the credit. The same way the word is used in ordinary business.

amortization in business refers to the schedule of interest payments, I thought you were talking about the interest shortfall created by the financial system. What you are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the points I am making about the par (gold) value of money.

I was pointing out that "true-zero amortization" means, mathematically, that the 'Loan-To-Value' stays at a constant %. If the mortgage 'floated' at a fixed % of property value, there would be nothing to pay, since the inflation is more than equal to the interest.

With no taxes or fees to pay, the value of properties would be even higher, providing even more basis for the liens due these items. But this is a different topic:

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/banks-...tml#post125510

Whatever. Unfortunately, you still don't know what 'value' really is.

Hey, I like Marx! Very succinct and pithy analysis, and sometimes really funny. Sociological thinking is a way of understanding what goes on. Feudalism leads to Capitalism, which leads to So******m, which leads to Communism. These are the changing forms of an historic evolution. Yes, it looks like Feudalism, because it IS Feudalism. Only now it's called somewhere in between Capitalism and So******m. Its like a sliding scale or progression. Old wine, new bottles. Nothing new under the sun.

The collective ownership of property, by a state or a crown, is feudalism. Legally, there is no difference between so******m and feudalism, since both require pledging of all property to the state/crown. Marx was a propagandist of the British establishment to create a justification for the collective ownership of property after the success of the American experiment (where the commoner was allowed to freehold title to property) destroyed the current intellectual foundation of the European system. Marxism is evil, as it is based on the idea that all work for the state, and if you like it so are you. So******m, communism, and feudalism are all forms of collectivism. If you think communism is different than feudalism, just look at the current regime in North Korea. Capitalism is a slur invented by Marx. Why don't you try 'populism' instead. The idea is that the individual owns title to their on labor and property, it was very revolutionary in 1776 and will be again when Ron Paul is elected president.

Don't expect any replies, I leave for Europe for the holidays soon and will be back next year!

[mandalisj]

Maybe you could frame that argument as well.

While the quote didn't capture the statement from you message, the answer to why you cannot be compelled to pay debts in gold coin is because of the national bankruptcy declared with HJR192. Technically, the bank could move to make you pay ~$800 in Federal Reserve credit notes for every $42.2222 that you owe, however then they would be admitting they didn't give value.

[mrg]

Originally Posted by mandalisj

While the quote didn't capture the statement from you message, the answer to why you cannot be compelled to pay debts in gold coin is because of the national bankruptcy declared with HJR192. Technically, the bank could move to make you pay ~$800 in Federal Reserve credit notes for every $42.2222 that you owe, however then they would be admitting they didn't give value.

Good stuff.

This is what I call a thread with real "value" to it.

Enjoy the vacation, and come back safe.

[Levi Philos]

This phrase from post #1

Originally Posted by Jeff Mandalis

Why would you endorse checks that way when you should endorse them - EXCHANGE FOR CREDIT ONLY OR FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES NON-NEGOTIABLE AT PAR VALUE?

from post #1 is an indirect variation from the phrase found in the piece usually titled "Notes of Debt are Not Income" here:
http://www.commonlawvenue.com/Misc/2...t%20Income.pdf

One error above; calling a measured quantity of silver a "dollar" and a different measured quantity of gold also a "dollar" will get you in trouble with Gresham's law every time. Gresham's law is based on natural law, and no man written set of rules can over ride natural law. Congress could write a law that says men can fly by flapping their arms and some men might jump off tall buildings, but natural law says men cannot fly. Gresham's law exposition by Robert Mundell: http://www.columbia.edu/~ram15/grash.html

I suggest you read carefully the Professor Auriti piece on the Induction of Value to Money and the Ownership Thereof found on the gold is money forum: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=100359 along with subsequent discussion.

Levi Philos

[Levi Philos]

"Dollar" - The Name and Usage

The word "dollar" was historically associated with silver coins, not gold. Here are a couple of citations.

The word "dollar" is derived from Low Saxon "daler", an abbreviation of "Joachimsdaler" – (coin) from Joachimstal – so called because it was minted from 1519 onwards using silver extracted from a mine which had opened in 1516 near Joachimstal, a town in the Ore Mountains of northwestern Bohemia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._States_dollar

The weight of silver in the dollar coins varied widely over time and place; the earliest "taler" (sometimes "thaler") coins (in Scandinavian countries "daler") were about 8 grams, the Spanish created the milled "dollar" with the edge reeds to prevent scraping of the edges; and the first US dollar was about one ounce - 31 grams more or less. The Hanseatic League who were businessmen of northern Europe settled their accounts using the silver coinage and this spread down to Spain and over to the new country - the north American states. http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/dollar.html

Douglas Gnazzo wrote a five part series in 2005 that says basically that silver is the lawful money of the states and gold was only priced in relationship to silver.
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver1.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver2.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver3.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver4.html
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...5/silver5.html

Here is a little thing I have been repeating lately; "Paper money cannot hold value, paper money can only serve as a title instrument or warehouse receipt describing where the value is held."

Credit instruments based upon unbacked paper are then given value by the people who back it with their products and their intellectual and physical labor. The people become the final creditors when the banks fail to back the credit entries. Compare to this Barefoot Bob piece: http://www.barefootsworld.net/usfraud.html

Levi Philos