Banks, Collectors, and CRAs Discuss the elimationa of secured and unsecured "debt", as well as tactics for dealing with debt collectors and credit reporting agencies.


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  #1  
Old 03-14-2008, 02:56 PM
PeteNC PeteNC is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 15
Time to Liquidate

As you can see by my number of posts, I am a noob.

That being established, I trust you'll handle my questions gently should they have already been handled. I have used the search utility and may not be as adept at its function as are some.

Back to my point. Liquidation. Like many/most, I am tied into the Matrix via the FRN.

The following two posts:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205...s_inside_today

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080314/fed_c...sis.html?.v=20

indicate to me that the house of cards is getting ready to come tumbling down. I don't give it until the end of 2008 before we see civil unrest that hasn't been seen since the first depression.

Now that I've provided the basis for my question, let me proceed with my question.

How can I liquidate my IRA held by Ameritrade and convert it into usable funds that aren't as readily traced as your typical bank account? The amount I have in the IRA isn't substantial but it certainly is to me and my family. I have spoken with Ameritrade in regards to liquidating the IRA account and have been assured it can be done expediently and I alone will be responsible for the tax and the penalty burdens associated with doing so. Good enough.

Now we get to the problem. Once the account has been made liquid, how to transfer the proceeds in such a way that I have access without traceability? I refuse to open another account using the SSN assigned to me without my consent.

I apologize for the length of my post and hope that I haven't delved into a topic that has already been put to rest prior to my discovery of this excellent forum.

Kind regards,
PeteNC
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2008, 03:14 PM
ThomPaine ThomPaine is offline
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Location: georgia state
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If the IRA is in your legal/strawman name, then only that entity is responsible for any taxes that may be due. Once they are in your control (or control of the strawman), there are many options available. The funds could be loaned to a corporation, which may or may not survive the current economy and the loss could be written off as bad debt. Other options such as donating them to a charitable foundation or purchasing real estate are also available.

On the bank account, you have a few options. You can open a bank account without an SSN in your true name and redeem lawful money in the form of US Notes. Or you can do what the government and IRS and most other entities do and use a strawman. Create an LLC, a family trust, a foundation, etc to handle different things such as automobile ownership, investments, property ownership, labour, etc. Then, there is nothing in your legal name or true name and you can use each entity in the manner that best suits each situation. Additionally, funds can be transferred to you in one of several ways, depending on the situation at hand.


Thom
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Last edited by ThomPaine : 03-14-2008 at 03:19 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2008, 03:29 PM
farmer_giles_of_ham farmer_giles_of_ham is offline
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There will always be trackablity until the funds are converted into property. That means get cash and buy gold /silver.

Look for the next correction and consider jumping in.

Or buy other needfuls, like seed and tools.

Or just spend it and come out ahead by having nothing like the rest of us.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2008, 04:21 PM
netwrkranger's Avatar
netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 945
Currently reading Invisible Contracts.

Let's just say this treatise written by George Mercier is a shocking eye opener. I have been unable to cease reading since beginning several days ago.

From the treatise, banks are instrumentalities of Congress. Opening an account is a commercial agreement ensnaring one into a series of additional invisible contracts with the King (government). The Constitution plays no part in the contract, it being private law. The opening of an account (benefit) is evidence of commerce for profit and gain plus acceptance of the terms and conditions set by the King (agreement). You agree to the Bank Secrecy Act, SARs, no privacy, and anything else the King decides is his prerogative. Commerce, in part, is King's Law (I have heard that equity is King's Law as well).

Farmer is right (in addition to my appreciation for his wit and humor). Convert the money into items of substantive value e.g. property, gold, silver, supplies for survival, etc. Also, cash on hand never hurts. Tis better than a bank holiday with your cash in an account you can't gain access to.
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2008, 04:26 PM
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netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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More "happy" reading....

From Yahoo: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080314/bear_stearns.html?.v=21


Fed and Rival Bail Out Bear Stearns
Friday March 14, 6:09 pm ET
By Stephen Bernard and Joe Bel Bruno, AP Business Writers
On the Brink of Collapse, Bear Stearns Gets a Lifeline From a Rival and the Feds

NEW YORK (AP) -- On the verge of a collapse that could have shaken the very foundations of the U.S. financial system, investment bank Bear Stearns Cos. was bailed out Friday by a rival and the federal government. The near-miss raised new alarm about the credit crisis -- and whether other big firms might be in jeopardy.

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The rescue came from JPMorgan Chase & Co. and, in an extraordinary step, the Federal Reserve, both rushing to pump new money into the venerable Wall Street firm after its financial state deteriorated so much in a 24-hour period that it threatened to fail.

Bear Stearns stock lost nearly half its market value, about $5.7 billion, in a matter of minutes, and pulled the broader market down with it. The Dow Jones industrial average fell nearly 200 points.

If Bear Stearns were to go under, "it has the potential of bringing down the whole market," said Richard Bove, an analyst at Punk, Ziegel & Co. "This is the crescendo of the crisis."

JPMorgan and the central bank agreed to extend loans for 28 days to Bear Stearns, the nation's fifth-largest investment bank and the one hit hardest by the subprime mortgage mess.

Two hedge funds managed by Bear Stearns failed last summer, setting off a credit crisis that has swept up banks and brokerages around the globe.

In backing up JPMorgan, the Fed dusted off a rarely used, Depression-era provision to provide loans. It also said it was ready to step in to fight an erosion of confidence in the nation's largest financial institutions.

Officials from the Fed and the Securities and Exchange Commission held conference calls throughout the day Thursday to assess the potential impact on the broader economy, according to a Treasury official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the discussions.

For Bear, the crisis started when market speculation grew that it might have to seize collateral -- mostly mortgage-backed securities worth next to nothing -- from the private equity firm Carlyle Group.

Carlyle runs a bond fund and has come under intense pressure during the past week from creditors demanding collateral to back their investments.

As speculation swelled in the market, investors, customers and lenders raced to withdraw their money or rescind their credit lines. By Thursday night, Bear Stearns Chief Executive Alan Schwartz said, the bank realized the withdrawals might outpace the bank's resources -- so it reached out to JPMorgan for help.

JPMorgan, the nation's third-largest bank, has been hurt far less by the mortgage mess than other financial institutions. It will provide secured loans to Bear for four weeks -- insured, in essence, by the Fed.

Schwartz said it would buy Bear time and allow it to convince customers "that we have the ability to fund ourselves every day, to do business as usual." No one has disclosed how large the financing offered to Bear Stearns is.

The CEO also confirmed -- as many on Wall Street had suspected -- that Bear Stearns could be up for sale. He told analysts on a conference call that the bailout is a "bridge to a more permanent solution."

Bear is working with investment bank Lazard Ltd. to explore its options. That may include an outright sale of Bear Stearns to JPMorgan, something top executives from both banks were discussing, according to a person familiar with the talks who was not authorized to speak on the record.

JPMorgan is considered to have one of the strongest balance sheets among Wall Street banks, and is not already involved in a rescue like Bank of America's purchase of Countrywide Financial Corp., the nation's largest mortgage lender.

Bear Stearns, which has about 14,000 employees worldwide, has struggled since the two hedge funds under its control lost billions of dollars after investing heavily in securities backed by pools of subprime mortgages.

"They were the dominant firm for repackaging mortgages," said Andrew Wilkinson, senior market analyst at Interactive Brokers Group. "That's where all earnings came from. They had the least-diversified earnings stream of all of Wall Street securities firms, and as a result, they're paying the price today."

As delinquencies and defaults swelled among subprime mortgages, investors shied away from buying securities backed by the troubled loans.

Those fears expanded to encompass all but the safest bonds and securities, forcing investment banks to significantly reduce the value of their holdings and drying up money throughout the market.

Bear Stearns has racked up $2.75 billion in write-downs since last year, and releases first-quarter results on Monday that could show more losses. The bank lost $859 million during the quarter that ended Nov. 30, a stark contrast to its $558 million profit during the same period just one year earlier -- before the credit crisis.

The broader financial services sector has racked up nearly $160 billion in write-downs since the middle of last year.

"My guess is by next week, there will be rumors of other large, familiar institutions" that could be in trouble, said Anil Kashyap, a professor at the Graduate School of Business at the University of Chicago.

JPMorgan said it would not expose itself to any serious risk by helping Bear, but its shares dropped anyway, down $1.57, or about 4 percent, to $36.54. Bear stock plummeted 47 percent, or $27, to $30.

AP Business Writers Madlen Read and Dan Seymour in New York and Martin Crutsinger and Marcy Gordon in Washington contributed to this report.


Bank runs may be coming to a town near you....
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2008, 08:08 PM
jcoram jcoram is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4
liquidation

the only thing to fear is fear itself.You dont need to run or hide.Remember YOU are the creditor NOT the debtor.
Act like it,do it.Accept the funds file the tax forms include form 1040v,the voucher and discharge/set off the taxes.JUst like little charlie did in Willy Wonka.Make the return to treasury.Remember what charlie inhereted



God speed

Jeff
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2008, 02:20 AM
ezrhythm ezrhythm is offline
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He got to keep the Oompah Loompahs!
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Any fool can hire an attorney. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.


Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, following the tradition of men according to the rudiments of the world, and not in accordance with Christ.

To view other forums or create a new thread; While viewing any thread scroll down to the bottom right hand side. Select from Forum Jump.


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  #8  
Old 03-15-2008, 03:45 AM
David Merrill's Avatar
David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado.
Posts: 6,274
It looks like Farmer is onto something;


But that is first glance. The bottom line is that you cannot eat gold. The provisions are in place to make owning gold just as illegal as it was last time (1933); in fact, it is those same provisions.

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...ollections.jpg

So the profits of the rise in gold price will be severely slashed as moving your gold for food and other provisions moves underground.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...5----000-.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...5---a000-.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...5---b000-.html

Note that these provisions are still in place even after ending the Emergency. Look near the end at the Stipulations to the Bill:

http://Friends-n-Family-Research.inf...l_PL94-412.jpg
http://Friends-n-Family-Research.inf...tipulation.jpg

Even providing for yourself until things get better - 1933 to 1976; since 1976 somebody tried selling a 1933 gold coin in Britain and was arrested (rumor). The markings still held effect of law.

Not to spill doom and gloom.

I have found a great deal of peace in having a modicum of control through an inverted bill of exchange that cured to the day (30 days) on September 11, 2001. And it has been widely used for an assurance bond on the trust created by HJR-192 - backing hundreds of defaults on true judgments (suitors) and even most recently on August 13, 2007 Bernanke's Helicopter.

You may not have a grasp on your identity and relationship to law to manage such pressure relief systems. That does not mean you are out of or without control.

Look around you carefully. Examine your environment. Study the people and discover the relationships in your neighborhood. Now more than when I started doing this, you may speak more openly about how to cooperate in infrastructure failure. Get a resource like a gas generator. Get two; one for you in reserve and one for this kind of project. Get a few tanks of gas and put stabilizer in them. Install a plug in your sewage pipe (that goes out your roof - a muffler for silent running of the generator) and fresh air intake.

When the time is right, like after six hours of blackout, put your generator in a wagon and carry it to a key neighbor and offer to charge up their freezer for a half hour in exchange for some of their frozen food, which you put back in your own freezer. Most people do not realize that their furnaces will not function without the electric fan too.

You probably do not need too many details to get the point. By setting a mood of cooperation early, get the neighbors pooling their frozen foods in the larger freezers and employing your generator while you modestly collect a small fee of frozen foods for yourself. The profits are stultifying fear and panic around you. Get people thinking about how to keep smaller infrastructures functioning until the larger infrastructure is back up and running.

Get people around you thinking of covenant, coalition and cooperation instead of isolationism. Get your neighbors to help you protect your property rights to your generator by having an interest in it.



Regards,

David Merrill.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
It is worth noting that the fealty to the Pope, which you cited for its explicit mention of the Templar abbey in Dover, is the legal basis for the invalidation of the Magna Carta after it was sealed at Runnymede.
During discussion about the Treaty of 1213 and the Magna Charta (1215).

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/medieval/magframe.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/john1a.html
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2008, 05:34 AM
farmer_giles_of_ham farmer_giles_of_ham is offline
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I would not like to rely on any gold hoards myself. I see this more as a phase in the transition, from

"funds" > substance > means > knowledge

I want to end up with nothing attachable- because what I know, and as many others in my circle, is how we might survive.

One good use for "funds" is get the F.O. of America, or at least the major urban areas. This is exactly what the big money does anyway. SW Europe is nice, look for a provincial area. Or S America, New Zealand, etc.

Lose the burden of materialism and get flexible.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:21 AM
David Merrill's Avatar
David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmer_giles_of_ham
I would not like to rely on any gold hoards myself. I see this more as a phase in the transition, from

"funds" > substance > means > knowledge

I want to end up with nothing attachable- because what I know, and as many others in my circle, is how we might survive.

One good use for "funds" is get the F.O. of America, or at least the major urban areas. This is exactly what the big money does anyway. SW Europe is nice, look for a provincial area. Or S America, New Zealand, etc.

Lose the burden of materialism and get flexible.


I used to say that the troubles you have here will follow you anywhere. It is the end result of your process - knowledge that will be useful. But now the dollar falters severely in relationship to the currencies of where you describe, I am changing my tune more to your key Farmer.



Regards,

David Merrill.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonra
It is worth noting that the fealty to the Pope, which you cited for its explicit mention of the Templar abbey in Dover, is the legal basis for the invalidation of the Magna Carta after it was sealed at Runnymede.
During discussion about the Treaty of 1213 and the Magna Charta (1215).

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/medieval/magframe.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/john1a.html
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