Redemption of FRN??

[indio007]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Why redeem lawful money twice? That would be the waste of gasoline I was warning about.



Maybe you can get in but at best they will give you more FRNs. I heard that security will send you on your way as soon as you bring up what you are trying to do. The 1984 article in my video focuses primarily around coins and seems to presume that in 1984 anyway, there were still US notes to be had. US notes are inelastic currency and FRNs are elastic - ergo FRNs are not considered lawful money in themselves unless you bond them yourself. If you look at that pre-1934 remedy it will make no sense unless you consider the FRNs as stock certificates in the Fed. Therefore if you do not redeem them in lawful money by non-endorsement of private credit, the FRNs in your pocket make you the reserve bank spoken of in the Fed Act.

Logic dictates that FRNs can still be redeemed in lawful money. But in a fancy Act of Congress making legal tender, both FRNs and US notes, seem synonymous as lawful money people seem to think the remedy has somehow gone away. No the remedy is still in full force and effect. You have to accept your US notes in the form of FRNs but since you did not endorse private credit, your demand to redeem lawful money with your paycheck is on the record.

So you have redeemed the lawful money and the national debt by the amount on your paycheck.



I started a thread a while back private currency exchange, or something like that. The coins do not differentiate themselves to be divisible into FRNs or US notes. And that is why gold is still earmarked at $42.22/ounce for uses in the UN's IMF Trust Fund for SDRs - Special Drawing Rights = paper gold.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releas...0408assets.htm

Look carefully at the footnotes. You could redeem the $42 in lawful money in the form of FRNs but it would be the $.22 that would collapse the gold window between the earmarked value from the late Seventies and Spot ($1K/ounce). You would be holding the proof that those coins hold two vastly different values between the coins as lawful money and divisions of FRNs.


Regards,

David Merrill.

@ = approximately

transactions for gold, legal tender FRN's and lawful money should look like this then...
where gold is estimated exchangeable at 1000 FRN's per ounce
and US notes are exchangeable at 40 US Notes per ounce

$1 FRN exchanged for gold would get you 1/1000 of an ounce of gold

$1 US note exchanged for gold would get you @ 1/40th of an ounce of gold.

The US code does not say FRNs are exchangable at par for lawful money.

A $1 dollar US note should be worth @ 25 $1 FRN's.

So a script quarter is not the same as a quarter of a dollar. A quarter of a dollar U.S. would be 5$ FRN.
25 cents of script is 1 penny U.S.

Cut a penny in half. It looks like plastic inside.

[antjraf]

[quote=David Merrill][quote=antjraf]

That future may be the first guy to demand lawful money then take that lawful money to the Fed for an ounce of gold at $42.22/ounce. I keep attaching this Withdrawal Slip and may have to link it instead for bandwidth. The suitor would take those same bills into a Fed bank to buy gold.



Which is precisely what I was alluding to in my first post.
Has anyone attempted to do this? Have you David? What is to keep the Fed from either laughing in your face or "kindly" escorting you out, or worse? Even though this approach is completely lawful, the Fed will not just roll over and say, "OK Joe Schmo, here's your gold, have a nice day, tell your friends!" What could they or would they say when someone walks in demanding gold for $42.22/oz.? What are their arguments or rebuttals to an honest and lawful demand for gold?

[GenXPatriot]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Please be patient with my being abrupt. When I read a post a few times and cannot piece it together I look for an incorrect presumption. Now that you see the incorrect presumption you made, I figure you have withdrawn the question. But you have not so I will try again but building on what I already told you about the $.22 in the $42.22/ounce above.



The $.22 in coin is an absurdity. This is because the coins are fractional values for two disparately valued currencies. When we dabble in the metaphysics of law, we must do our best to reconcile absurdities with reality. And the only truth to use is that when we endorse the private credit from the Fed, we and our substance becomes the bond behind the elasticity that has cause this discrepancy - now 2000% between the two currencies that the coins divide equally into the units of.

In other words there should be two sets of coins. The ones that say US Dollars and the ones that say Federal Reserve Tokens.


Regards,

David Merrill.

Ok..

So quarters, dimes, nickles, and pennies are Federal Reserve "tokens"

Take it slow DM this is my newest area of study.

So are you saying that:

FRNs, US Notes, and US coins (Q,D,N,P) are all the same?

[indio007]

That demand would only be enforceable if FRN's are traded at PAR value of lawful money. The only lawful money in circulation is US Notes and they have a set redemption price for gold.

It gets me thinking about redeeming a paycheck with the non-endorsement that Dave refers to ...

If it was redeemed on the endorsement for lawful money the bank that redeemed it short changed him. In the event they deny they short changed him the difference in value between US notes and FRN's, they need to redeem the bills they tendered him 4 the check at par with US notes.

That is the rub. Or where the rubber meets the road.
There must be more than one exchange value for a dollar. It depends on how you declare the value when you endorse the check for payment. Declare your paycheck pegged to lawful money and it must be exchanged at par with lawful money.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by antjraf

Which is precisely what I was alluding to in my first post.

Has anyone attempted to do this? Have you David? What is to keep the Fed from either laughing in your face or "kindly" escorting you out, or worse? Even though this approach is completely lawful, the Fed will not just roll over and say, "OK Joe Schmo, here's your gold, have a nice day, tell your friends!" What could they or would they say when someone walks in demanding gold for $42.22/oz.? What are their arguments or rebuttals to an honest and lawful demand for gold?

That would be in conflict with my BOE. - To crash the paper gold (SDR's). It is like decompressing a highly compressed information infrastructure. People should keep confidence in the FRN's private credit enough so that we can get through that crash with cellphones and flush toilets still functioning.

Originally Posted by GenXPatriot

Ok..

So quarters, dimes, nickles, and pennies are Federal Reserve "tokens"

Take it slow DM this is my newest area of study.

So are you saying that:

FRNs, US Notes, and US coins (Q,D,N,P) are all the same?

I think what I am saying is there was a dichotomy of reality/realities around 1215 with the Magna Charta. Shoonra is not on dog food when he tells us that the Magna Charta was nullified by the Pope on the Treaty of 1213. That is one reality. Most people do not know about that reality but the entire Bar is built upon it. It is the International Bar Association that built the memorial for the Magna Charta.

Likewise your question can be answered yes and no. Are they the same? No. In my opinion US notes are like Shoonra says - inelastic. Federal reserve notes are elastic. But we still divide the coins at the same fractional values for both - an absurdity to call the coins the same thing when the gold in the UN's IMF Trust Fund backing SDRs for the exchange rate is still where it was when the two currencies began to diverge.

Originally Posted by indio007

That demand would only be enforceable if FRN's are traded at PAR value of lawful money. The only lawful money in circulation is US Notes and they have a set redemption price for gold.

It gets me thinking about redeeming a paycheck with the non-endorsement that Dave refers to ...

If it was redeemed on the endorsement for lawful money the bank that redeemed it short changed him. In the event they deny they short changed him the difference in value between US notes and FRN's, they need to redeem the bills they tendered him 4 the check at par with US notes.

That is the rub. Or where the rubber meets the road.
There must be more than one exchange value for a dollar. It depends on how you declare the value when you endorse the check for payment. Declare your paycheck pegged to lawful money and it must be exchanged at par with lawful money.

That would be collapsing the same gold windows (currency exchange) from the other side of the economy. - For me to collect my $42.22 paycheck at the proper US dollar rate of Today's Spot ($815). -Because I could take the pay to a coin dealer and get an ounce of gold. The coin dealer I discussed this with preferred I bring him this scenario - rather than me bringing a notarized copy of the withdrawal slip and the itemized Serial Numbers of the bills.





Regards,

David Merrill.

[FreeBird]

After 1933, the gold standard went away. Abouto 1964, the silver standard went away. We are now on the oil standard. Trying to redeem FRNs for coin is as foolish as trying to take in your grandmother's books of Green Stamps to get a new TV. Better to take a bucket to the oil fields with a demand note.

[David Merrill]

Considering the Fuel Shortage of the Carter Administration, with Bush Sr. Director of Central Intelligence... and the current Iraq wars of the Bush Empire; you might have a mental model worth considering.

But could you point to anything by the Congress saying that we are on the oil standard? - That would be worth a looksee.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[aksis]

Originally Posted by FreeBird

Trying to redeem FRNs for coin is as foolish as trying to take in your grandmother's books of Green Stamps to get a new TV.

While trying to do this with 1000's of Dollars would be absurde, this is exactly what I did to initialy open one account at BofA.

I took a $20 FRN, redeemed it for 2 rolls of quarter Dollars (lawful money - the coin comes from the Mint, not the Fed) and then, I opened the account with the rolls of quarter Dollars.

Now I just make sure that any deposits are credited to the account in lawful money and not private credit via non-endorsment:

Deposited for credit on account or exchanged for non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value.

or,

Deposited for credit on account in, or exchanged for, "lawful money" per USC 12, §411

Yet, I still keep in mind the anticdote about the one suitor that made an affidavit to the effect of:

Had I known better at the time, I would have always been redeeming lawful money.

Magnanimously,

Christopher Theodore: Rhodes

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by aksis

While trying to do this with 1000's of Dollars would be absurde, this is exactly what I did to initialy open one account at BofA.

I took a $20 FRN, redeemed it for 2 rolls of quarter Dollars (lawful money - the coin comes from the Mint, not the Fed) and then, I opened the account with the rolls of quarter Dollars.

Now I just make sure that any deposits are credited to the account in lawful money and not private credit via non-endorsment:

Deposited for credit on account or exchanged for non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value.

or,

Deposited for credit on account in, or exchanged for, "lawful money" per USC 12, §411

Yet, I still keep in mind the anticdote about the one suitor that made an affidavit to the effect of:

Had I known better at the time, I would have always been redeeming lawful money.

Magnanimously,

Christopher Theodore: Rhodes

Thank you.

Sometimes it is refreshing, with Notorial Dissent, Shoonra and Lawdog saying otherwise to be reminded I can still understand plain English!


Regards,

David Merrill.

[DocBrotherman]

When I checked last year, the Chicago Fed bank was rexchanging FRN's for US notes at 29 to 1.