Could anyone help with CC debt ????

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Originally Posted by Right to the Castle

Enough said.

Thats why a 2nd mortgage must be placed as well, and a ucc lien while we are at it. Have to lock it up at both ends. damned if they do, damned if they don't. Forces the issue to be the validity of the liens: complicated, many appeals, delays, hit the reset button a few times, etc. How about every time the bank sues to remove the lien deny that the bank exists? I went for a year this way, each time the opposing lawyer just started over, no progress.

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

In that letter is says "Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested."

Should I take out the part that says "refusal to pay" could or would that indicate that I acknowledge the debt? Isnt it better to not acknowledge the debt but
request Validation not Verification?

Maybe you could substitute with:

Originally Posted by f.G.

"as to any claims I am unable to form a responsive answer for lack of sufficient information"

but it looks like the request is indeed for validation, since thats the word used. I don't know what the difference is. I do think they need to Verify any claims, meaning an affidavit under penalty of perjury.

In court of course you would need to verify your position, by affidavit. This trumps mere certifications and forces them to Verify as well, just to compete.

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

Other then that, do you think I could use this format and send it to Capitol one who I owe about 5K to and see what happens?! Or how about my mortgage which is held my Washington Mutual?! Also, my fiancee is being harrassed by some "collection agency" today infact so I would imagine that I could apply this letter to her situation as well....

I think you or anyone else can send as many letters as you like of this nature to any and all comers. Thats how you learn, do things, see what happens, get educated by experience, and do better next time. A learning curve it is for sure.

The problem with the mortgage is that it is secured, so the challenge is the right to foreclose and take the house. As for the personal loans, they might back off, but if you are still paying they will be happy to send a bill. Its all a game of "one-up-man-ship". Only if you stop paying and they start collection procedures might this help any. Every time you pay the bill, that renews the contract.

Some people have tried approaches like- send a check for $20 marked "FINAL PAYMENT". If they deposit it without question, there's your argument. Needs to be $20 to create a jury triable controversy.

Others have created coupons or assignments against your original interest in the note, and tried to charge-off with these issues. There is a lot of material on this website about that method.

Some would say this requires showing secured party status, original creditor, 3rd party super-plaintiff, etc. Some have filed UCC liens on their corporate u.s. persona, as a distinct person, in order to show standing to make these orders. It gets complicated.

On another note, you really want to start getting judgment-proof: anything that can be attached will be attached by someone eventually, why risk or make it easier.

I think some of the confusion comes from seeing this as scientific and physical. It isnt. We are talking about human beings, and psychology/legal mentality/perceptions/politics/customs etc. None of this is any more than posturing, but thats how all laws in society work, one claim against another tested out through the very complex layers of legal procedure. You can write whatever you want pretty much (but don't misrepresent or lie, its a crime!) and just be prepared to see what happens. When you have property, time is on your side. When you don't, its against you.

I think that our main goal is just going to be survival very soon. These techniques and legal theories and whatnot would have been great about 50 years ago, and those who understood them probably tied everyone else up in knots. But the grandfathers were complacent, and bought into the illusion of prosperity and "things just magically happen by decree". So now here we are and its coming down to the wire.

The good thing is all this trains us to live without connections, live outside the system but enjoy some wealth anyway.

[free*to*be*me]

What ever you do, work on your unsecured debts, leave the secured like your home for last then read, read, read, learn all you can before you jump off the cliff without a parachute, there's no-one going to catch you, they may reach out to slow you down but you have to do this on your own with advice from the more experienced, if you give up and hire an attorn you lose. Its going to take many months so don't give up, because they won't for a long time. Read through the forums find the post, chase redeems there coupon I used that one. I have found the post go here. Good-Luck


http://www.suijuris.net/forum/succes...ir-coupon.html

Originally Posted by free*to*be*me

What ever you do, work on your unsecured debts.

Would you please talk a lil bit more about "unsecured" debt and what that really means or point me in the right direction to find more information on this topic?!

Read through the forums find the post, chase redeems there coupon I used that one. I have found the post go here. Good-Luck
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/succes...ir-coupon.html

Also, would you talk a lil bit more about the "coupons" or again point me in the right direction? I have a Chase account that I would love to get rid of! Plus the link you provided is not working correctly is there any other way to view that information?

On another note, I was arrested a few weeks ago and in that process the cops beat me about the body and I needed to go to the hospital. The other day I recieved a bill for about $1400 for that visit. My question is, can I request validation of debt from the hospital?? Would that method work for this type of bill or debt?

[free*to*be*me]

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

Also, would you talk a lil bit more about the "coupons" or again point me in the right direction? I have a Chase account that I would love to get rid of! Plus the link you provided is not working correctly is there any other way to view that information?

On another note, I was arrested a few weeks ago and in that process the cops beat me about the body and I needed to go to the hospital. The other day I recieved a bill for about $1400 for that visit. My question is, can I request validation of debt from the hospital?? Would that method work for this type of bill or debt?

[quote=aaronkukla]Also, would you talk a lil bit more about the "coupons" or again point me in the right direction? I have a Chase account that I would love to get rid of! Plus the link you provided is not working correctly is there any other way to view that information?



Try the link again I found that it was not working for a while either but is now, I can't tell you if it will work for the hospital bill, I do know if there is a coupon attached with coupon numbers on the bottom you should be able to use it, go to the chase post and ask that question there and see if anyone responds. remember what works for some may not work for others, I have a Libel of review filed and R4C all presentments that way.

When you use the chase method you are discharging, there is no real money so we have the right to discharge a debt. but mind you it will be a fight during the whole process. I did 2 chase CC and the first one they did zero my balance then they added it back on, but as far as I'm concerned its discharged. then they sell it to nasty credit collections companies, you just R4C them, after that I never heard from them again, then another would try.

I have a Libel of review filed and R4C all presentments that way.

When you use the chase method you are discharging, there is no real money so we have the right to discharge a debt. but mind you it will be a fight during the whole process. I did 2 chase CC and the first one they did zero my balance then they added it back on, but as far as I'm concerned its discharged. then they sell it to nasty credit collections companies, you just R4C them, after that I never heard from them again, then another would try.[/quote]

Can you tell me where I locate the "coupon numbers" on my Chase CC bill?

Also, I found this "coupon offer doc" through this site and wondered if you would you be able to take a look at this document and let me know if this is similar to the document that you used?! Or, would this be a good start?? Would this method apply to other CC companies other then Chase? ie: Capitol One. The direct link to the document is:

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/attach...c?d=1168191776

Sorry for the "dumb" questions but would you be able to tell me what "you just R4C them" means?!

Thanks to everyone for their patience and helpful information!!

[free*to*be*me]

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

I have a Libel of review filed and R4C all presentments that way.

When you use the chase method you are discharging, there is no real money so we have the right to discharge a debt. but mind you it will be a fight during the whole process. I did 2 chase CC and the first one they did zero my balance then they added it back on, but as far as I'm concerned its discharged. then they sell it to nasty credit collections companies, you just R4C them, after that I never heard from them again, then another would try.

Can you tell me where I locate the "coupon numbers" on my Chase CC bill?

****They are at the bottom of the coupon, I also included the numbers at the top with a / between them to make sure I did get the right ones, never hurts to include more than needed****

Also, I found this "coupon offer doc" through this site and wondered if you would you be able to take a look at this document and let me know if this is similar to the document that you used?! Or, would this be a good start?? Would this method apply to other CC companies other then Chase? ie: Capitol One. The direct link to the document is:

*****Yes thats the one I used along with the affidavit of payment and I used it on 7 different CC*****

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/attach...c?d=1168191776

Sorry for the "dumb" questions but would you be able to tell me what "you just R4C them" means?!

R4C is short for Refusal for cause its when you right it over the presentment in red ink it just means you refuse to contract with the presenter.there certain steps to follow so if you ever plan on using it ask to make sure you do it right.

Thanks to everyone for their patience and helpful information!![/quote]

*****Yes thats the one I used along with the affidavit of payment and I used it on 7 different CC*****

What is the affidavit of payment? Is that a document that I draw up? Do you have a sample letter?

Before sending these documents should I have them notorized?

Should I mail them registered mail or return receipt requested ?

Thanks again for all your help....

[free*to*be*me]

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

*****Yes thats the one I used along with the affidavit of payment and I used it on 7 different CC*****

What is the affidavit of payment? Is that a document that I draw up? Do you have a sample letter?

Before sending these documents should I have them notorized?

Should I mail them registered mail or return receipt requested ?

Thanks again for all your help....

******************************************

go to this post (website below) (affidavit of payment) its on the very first post, Below, as an attachment.

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/succes...ir-coupon.html

send them registered mail with return receipt, you might want to send them through a notory to the corporate office address, I found the address on the coupon was not doing much good. But I knew they received it by the return receipt, so they could not rebutt it.

*****Yes thats the one I used along with the affidavit of payment and I used it on 7 different CC*****

Would you be able to tell me where you stand on these accounts so far? Have you received a zero balance on any of them?

Would or does the coupon method work for any other bank but Chase?

As far as R4C, Do you simply write "Refuse For Cause" on any and all correspondence and send it back? Do you leave it unopened?

Also, when you send back the "coupon" do you have to fingerprint it? And when signing your name it's simlply "First Middle" and thats it? No surname!?

It is also necessary to initial it over the stamp?

Does it have to be that fox stamp? Could I use any postage equaling $1.05?

Thank you for your help and input!

[free*to*be*me]

Originally Posted by aaronkukla

*****Yes thats the one I used along with the affidavit of payment and I used it on 7 different CC*****

Would you be able to tell me where you stand on these accounts so far? Have you received a zero balance on any of them?

Would or does the coupon method work for any other bank but Chase?

As far as R4C, Do you simply write "Refuse For Cause" on any and all correspondence and send it back? Do you leave it unopened?

Also, when you send back the "coupon" do you have to fingerprint it? And when signing your name it's simlply "First Middle" and thats it? No surname!?

It is also necessary to initial it over the stamp?

Does it have to be that fox stamp? Could I use any postage equaling $1.05?

Thank you for your help and input!

WOW thats a lot of questions!!

I suggest before you do the CC method or in fact any method, you learn who you are and do much more reading and learning, you can jump into any method but do you know what to do next? I mean, when they start coming back to test you and believe me THEY WILL.

Please PM me I tried to PM you but can't, just click on my post name and that will take you to the personal message center, we will talk and hopefully get the answers you need. It would be much to lengthy to answer it all here.