Debt Collector Lawsuit

[JWR]

I'm not sure if this should go into the Court section or not, but am putting it here since it has to deal with a debt collector. I'll try to give as much info on this as possible, but don't know specifics on the dates she stopped paying or what, if any, collection activity there has been.

My girlfriend recieved a summons to go to court in about two weeks for a credit card she quit paying on and neither one of us knows how to proceed. It was a Providian cedit card and it seems a company called Asset Acceptance LLC has purchased the debt. But this may also just be Providians collector, not too sure.

According to the summons they are giving her three choices 1) hire an attorney to represent her 2) contact the plaintiff or plaintiffs attorney to reach a settlement before the first appearance date 3) come to court on the appearance date and tell the judge if she admits or denies the claim against her. And if she denies the debt, she must complete and file an "Answer Form" and pay the fee that goes along with it.

On the first choice, we not only do not have the money for an attorney, but we wouldn't want one anyway for the obvious reasons. On the second choice, she told me she could call them and give them an offer of about 20 bucks a month or so and see what they say, that way the judge would see she at least tried to pay it (I personally don't like this one). On the third choice, actually going in there to admit or deny the debt, she says she could go in there and just tell them she can't pay since she is living exclusively from her monthly disability check, which isn't a whole heck of a lot (which also involves admitting the debt to be valid).

In the alternative, denying the debt. Neither one of us know anything about how to discharge credit card debt, especially since it is already in the lawsuit stage. And she also doesn't know anything about the topics that are discussed here other than what she has heard me say (which never included this stuff, mainly just tax info).

Since there is a deadline on educating her (and me too) on how to deal with this situation and neither one of us know enough on this topic, how could one, hypothetically speaking of course, deal with this without getting in too much trouble? Keep in mind that I am stretched kind of thin on time as I have some pressing tax problems that are being set aside at the same time this is going on (when it rains it pours). I guess what we need is a crash course in how to handle this and come out on top.

And, since she is getting disability, can they really take that away from her, even with a judgement against her? (she is barely scraping by as it is) If you need more specific info on the summons let me know and I'll try to get it up as soon as possible.

Anyones two cents would be greatly appreciated.

JWR

there's stuff all over this forum about Validation of Debt. research on that...

1. attorney isn't going to help you as you've already figured out.
2. attempting to "pay" the alleged debt acknowledges its existence and you'll lose if you are trying to win. so don't do that.
3. how can you deny something that doesn't actually exist? they're trying to draw you into a dispute here.

if you haven't "answered" the suite, then you are probably in very hot water and may not be able to extricate yourself easily. i'd suggest looking around here for the CPN stuff and see what you can find. take that to court and tender it in an attempt to settle and close the account...

my poor two cents worth of opinion...

jon

Several things come to mind and are worth researching. Others on this forum may have first hand knowledge or more to share regarding these thoughts. I got this from a Winston Shrout seminar and have not had the need to use them.

When you show up for the appearance do so under admiralty E(8) which is “restricted appearance” under Rule E (8). By doing so you are not granting subject matter jurisdiction and they can't make you the surity for the claim.

Or, appoint a fiduciary debtor and fiduciary creditor and let them handle it. Winston discusses this on the Hawaii Workshop dvd available at lawresearchgroup.com. Jason also has a package that explains this in detail. Both are excellent.

Charlotte

You might check the web site for Bud Hibbs and click on America's worst.The group you mention are in there. Don't know much about Bud's method's or fee's.

[seeker]

I've dialoged with Bud on several issues. Seems to know his stuff for the most part and advocates using the FDCPA against these bloodsuckers. Start with a validation demand. I use the certified mail to enable me to track the letter and then use as papertrail proof. When going into court, check with the story under Successes, the current one started by Ice's Girl -- Jabco just went through something similar -- when going into court just tell them you neither accept nor deny but request validation of the debt as per the FDCPA as this firm has identified themselves as a third party debt collector -- and go to the court house and make sure there really is a suit filed -- these bastards will sink to any low.

Seeker

[JWR]

From scanning this forum for a while I believe that the third party debt collector will find it very difficult to actually validate the alleged debt. So that being said, how does one actually challenge the validity of this alleged debt in actual application? Also understand that I have to teach someone that doesn't really know anything about this sort of thing and needs to be able to understand what they are doing before doing it.

I believe before suijuris was redone there was info or fill in forms that I can't locate now. I believe there was stuff on CPNs and/or VoDs, but don't remember as I never investigated this in depth. Is there an example of a VoD or CPN and how one might use these to stop the action they are bringing?

And how could a third party debt collector attempt to validate the debt, or would they even try? (a concern of hers) She thinks that if challenged they will just ask if she used the card, and if she says yes, that would validate it, and she would lose.

As far as admiralty goes, I wouldn't know the first thing about it. That gets a bit too technical for her to understand in the short amount of time we have left to prepare (like I said above, I have some pressing IRS stuff I need to take care of, ie notice of levy)

I have heard Bud Hibbs on the radio several times and he seems to know his stuff pretty well, but really don't think he could help as we wouldn't have the resources for his services, especially since this alleged debt is just over $2000.00 FRNs. And we also know they can order her to pay (if she loses) but can't take what she doesn't have. We don't want to lose though.

JWR

[Jerseee]

JWR,

The way I teach folks is to think first about what has been taught and understand things from that platform of thought. I teach this way because it is very difficult to get an adult who has been taught one way almost all of their lives and asking them to change gears in thinking sovereign is hard to do.

Teaching how this works is not difficult. the hard part is getting folks to think a certain way so they can apply what they've learned.

Knowing the difference in this is key and that is why a lot of folks have trouble because they have not accepted the cold fact that you cannot pay for anything and that you are not your accusor's witness.

Hope that helps

[JWR]

Thanks for all the replies and help. I sure need it.

I know there is there an example of a VoD somewhere here on suijuris (I think) but for the life of me I just can't seem to find it. Mabe I'm just looking in the wrong places or haven't been using the correct search parameters. If someone could please point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

I have found a reply from seeker in a thread started by jafco13 (HERE #30) that I have finally got my girlfriend to understand (she knows from me a while back that no REAL money is ever used) but we don't yet know how to do a proper VoD. And what exactly is a CPN and should one be used.

On a side note, how should one respond to a question such as "Did you use/charge on this card?" This seems to be the main concern of hers, how to respond to this kind of questioning. To say yes would validate it, to say no might cause her to lie, either way would create problems.

Still have some research to do I guess.

JWR

[Jerseee]

JWR,

I read and understand your concerns. First I should say that one should take a business law course, it is a real eye opener taking that course after being exposed to what we speak of here.

Next, that course also explains negotiable instruments. It seems that you are not familiar with CPNs and that you have the power to create your own notes. Do it the way you want to--just make sure that it is backed by public policy, supported case law and even throw in some UCC codes (FOR REFERENCE ONLY--NOT AS A BASIS). Then put a notary's jurat on the note, swear that the info is true to the best of your knowledge and sign away.

It is more detailed in some areas but study is required before leaping into commerce.

And as for the question, "Did you charge/use this credit card?" I can say from experience that the issue is not whether I used the card or not--the issue is ... is the alleged debt valid from the beginning?

A thing void from the beginning does not become valid due to lapse of time.

Read up on fraud and their maxims under the law.

have fun

[JWR]

Jerseee,

The way you worded your response sounds like you are refering to a particular business law course. If so, what is it, and if not, can you recommend one (hopefully one that isn't too expensive)? We only have about a week and a half till the initial hearing and need to be as prepared as possible in as short a time as possible.

JWR