Banks, Collectors, and CRAs Discuss the elimationa of secured and unsecured "debt", as well as tactics for dealing with debt collectors and credit reporting agencies.


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  #1  
Old 12-13-2004, 10:31 AM
PJT04
 
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Money and the Federal Reserve System

has anybody read this article by G. Thomas Woodward?
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/fr7.htm

he seems to have found an alternate explanation on how the federal reserve really works.

here's the first paragraph:

SUMMARY
The United States, like virtually all advanced nations, has a banking system in which the use of fractional reserves means that most money is generated by banks and not the government. Presiding over this system is a central bank. The central bank for the United States, the Federal Reserve, has considerable independence in its operations, which include monetary policy.

This independence -- and the enormous influence that the Federal Reserve has over economic conditions -- have given rise to a great deal of conjecture concerning its nature and operations. The theories and suspicions about the system underlie monetary reform proposals frequently advanced by citizens, as well as various complaints and petitions sent to the Members of Congress because of congressional responsibility for the country's money.

The Federal Reserve is not a private corporation. It is part private and part public, with the Board of Governors an agency of the United States government. The regional Federal Reserve Banks are private corporations acting as agents of the government, owned by their member banks. No individuals hold stock in the Fed. Corporate control of the regional Federal Reserve Banks is limited and based on one vote per stockholding bank (so that big banks cannot control the system).

The Fed buys and owns some of the government's debt. But it does not determine how much debt is issued (that is determined by the government's budget). The Fed owns less than 10% of the government's total debt. The interest earned on the debt created by the Fed is turned over to the Treasury (except for an amount to cover the Fed's operating costs), so that the revenue consequences of having the Fed issue Federal Reserve notes is essentially the same as having its own currency directly.

Having a banking system that allows transactions to occur by check reduces the seigniorage revenue to the government, which could otherwise issue at a profit money needed for transactions. But bank depositors are the principal beneficiaries of the system, because they are able to earn interest on their accounts and minimize the amount of non-interest bearing cash they must hold for transaction purposes.

The existence of the Federal Reserve is separate from the choice of monetary standard. It is not an alternative to a gold standard. Similarly, the existence of the Federal Reserve and the choice of a monetary standard is unrelated to the existence of fractional reserve banking, or to who regulates the operations of banks. The primary issue about the Federal Reserve is about who controls monetary policy.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2004, 02:53 AM
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Jerseee Jerseee is offline
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If there was lawful money he might be right.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2004, 07:38 PM
PJT04
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseee
If there was lawful money he might be right.

ACCORDING TO HIM THERE IS. HE CLAIMS FRN'S ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD . HE STATES THAT GOLD'S VALUE IS BASED MAINLY ON FAITH. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS SO VALUABLE BECAUSE IT'S A RARE, DURABLE, PRECIOUS METAL.

CHECK OUT THIS PART OF THE ARTICLE:

THE FED AND THE GOLD STANDARD
Many people feel that the most appropriate monetary system is one in which money is backed by gold. A gold standard can mean a variety of different things. But principally, it is an arrangement in which the monetary unit (in this case, a dollar) is defined in terms of a given quantity of gold of a specified fineness. In some systems, the money issued by the government consists only of precious money in the form of coins. In others, paper money is issued that can be redeemed for gold at the option of the holder. In the post-World War II period, a quasi-gold standard existed, in which gold could be used for "official" transactions between different governments, but in which paper money was otherwise not redeemable by the public.

An exclusive gold standard in which money consists of coin and in which no paper money is issued is virtually impossible to maintain. This is because eventually some institution will issue a receipt for coin which will itself circulate as money. If the government doesn't do it, a bank will. And if not a bank, some other financial agent will. It might be an actual receipt for gold on deposit, or what is functionally equivalent, a bank note (i.e., bank-issued currency). If these are somehow prohibited, checking accounts perform the same role.

Consequently, most gold standards are those in which some kind of paper money exists that represents gold being held somewhere. This raises the analytical question: which attribute really makes it a gold standard, that the money is backed by gold, or that it is redeemable for gold? These are different arrangements.

Many people seem to think that what makes a gold standard work is that there is backing in the form of gold. The most common argument along these lines is that gold has intrinsic value. Therefore, whenever it (or a representation of it) is used in a transaction, the receiver is getting something of genuine value, not a promise to pay.

In contrast -- this line of reasoning goes -- IOU money such as Federal Reserve Notes, is not in itself worth anything. Such notes can only be passed if others have faith in their worth. If everyone lost their faith in these notes, they would cease to have value in exchange.

This intrinsic value argument, however, does not generally hold. The truth is, gold mostly holds its value based on faith as well. Gold of course does have commercial value. It has always been used for jewelry, for a time in dentistry, and more recently has had industrial uses, such as for electronics. Certain of its chemical attributes (e.g., the fact that it does not oxidize) has made it attractive for such purposes. Hence, it was a convenient commodity to use as money in transactions.

However, once its use as money became widespread, the demand for gold for monetary purposes far outstripped its demand for non-monetary uses. As a result, much more of it was mined and refined than would have been the case just to satisfy the demand for it in jewelry and electronics. If there were no demand for gold as store of wealth (i.e., potential monetary use), its value would fall precipitously. Consequently, in terms of intrinsic value, gold is remarkably like paper money: its current value much exceeds its value for non-monetary purposes; it maintains this value only because people have faith that it will continue to be useful for transferring wealth; were this faith to collapse, its value would as well.

Actually, the strength of a gold standard largely derives from the feature of "redeemability". The commitment to redeem a note for gold at the option of the holder regulates the issuance of paper currency. If an issuer injects too much paper money into the economy, such that prices begin to rise relative to gold, holders will redeem it for gold, and slow down the expansion of the money supply. Similarly, too slow a growth in the money supply can reduce prices, making it worthwhile to turn gold in for money, and to mine and refine more gold because of its increased buying power.

The problem with gold (and other commodities) as a monetary standard is that there is no guarantee that gold stocks will grow at rates necessary to keep prices stable. Historically, new discoveries of gold have generated substantial inflation. At other times, failure of the stock to grow fast enough caused prices to fall. This is compounded by various innovations that may allow the economy to get by on less base money, such as the growth of crediting and debiting accounts.

While the dollar in 1929 was very close to the same purchasing power that existed in 1800, its value fluctuated much in between, rising to twice its 1800 buying power in 1850, depreciating 12% just a few years later, falling again around the turn of the century and rising to nearly 2 1/2times its 1900 value in 1920.

The biggest problem came when the public began to have doubts about the redeemability of the currency. In those periods there was a rush to convert to gold, and a shrinkage of the total money supply was the result. The effort to stay on the gold standard during the period 1931-1933 was a big reason for the severity of the great depression. Shrinkage of the money supply was only stopped after the United States abandoned its commitment to stay on a gold standard.

The 1933 abandonment of gold marked the true end of the gold standard for the United States. What followed was only a shadow of a true gold standard. Lacking public redeemability, the biggest virtue of a gold standard -- discipline -- was lost. Redeemability in official transactions did not prove to be much a restraint on monetary policy. The United States expanded its money supply at a rate that eventually made it impossible to use gold even in international transactions. By 1968, the United States had de facto stopped using gold. Actions in 1971 and 1973 made the changeover official; all links to gold were cut.

Essentially, abandonment of gold did not lead to expansionary monetary policy and inflation, rather, expansionary policy and inflation forced the abandonment of gold. Gold convertibility does provide a discipline, at a cost. But it is a discipline that only works if a country has the will to submit to it, in which case, it may very well be able to discipline itself without gold.
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:17 AM
Purge Purge is offline
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The Money Masters

The Money Masters (DVD) is saying a similar thing. They believe the gold standard is just as unstable as our current system. Their solution is:

1. Pay off the debt with debt-free US Notes. As the US Treasury buys up its bonds on the open market with US notes, the reserve requirements of your hometown local bank will be proportionally raised so the amount of money in circulation remains constant. Once all the US bonds are replaced with US debt-free notes, banks will be at 100% reserve banking.
2. Abolish Fractional Reserve Banking. As the debt is paid off, the reserve requirements of all banks and financial institutions would be raised proportionally at the same time…
3. Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act. Stop the private banking system.
4. Withdraw the US from the IMF, the BIS and the World Bank. Stopping the world banking system control.


Read about Milton Friedman a Nobel Prize winning economist.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2004, 01:42 AM
jmunson
 
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i have a better solution:

1. never allow one authoritative body to have complete control over the "monetary" system.
2. whatever is used for currency, it should be available naturally, and somewhat rare, like gold, etc. the actual material really doesn't matter - it is a mere perception anyway.

and just my personal items:

3. ensure that no more than a reasonable debt level can be had by anyone. for instance, 10% of one's total income (meant in the common definition, and not the ambiguous gov't one). this to ensure anyone can get out of debt without undue hardship or indentured servitude.
4. get rid of credit altogether.
5. stress a debt-free life. limit advertising, exposure, etc., to the "live richly" syndrome... it is easier to be rich when you don't have any debts!

jon
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:16 AM
squirrels
 
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Has anybody ever even seen what this guy "G. Thomas Woodward" looks like? Man, his appearance (like a robot) and job history (and his words of course, look how he uses them!) say he has the DC thinktank so far up his ass that he wouldn't know an original thought if a slab of silver struck him in the noggin. This guy was most likely spoon-fed Keynesian economics like it was the bible. He is quite partisan in his writings and I'll bet he is only an instrumentality (the cool kids would call him a 'tool') to express the policy of higher-ups. I'll say it again - he is an instrument that is being used to express the policy of someone else.

jon, I think you got it right (except for your inherent contradiction of course by inserting #4, but I think I know what you mean). It's just not gonna happen in this country anytime soon until the machine implodes, which it inevitably and mathematically will. "When" is my worry...

-squirrels
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2004, 09:22 PM
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Jerseee Jerseee is offline
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Excellent thread all!!!

Nothing like a cerebral orgasm
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  #8  
Old 12-17-2004, 12:52 AM
jmunson
 
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lol...by credit i really meant things like credit cards...

jon
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