Please Read - Update On My Car *loan*

Hey all. Here is a small update on my VODs and my bout with the banks. As you may recall, I sent the bank that allegedly financed my car loan a VOD and a CPN around December 2004. I sent the VOD directly to the Bank's attorney. He never replied and I launched a default letter to him last week, which not only declared this bogus account discharged and void but also demanded that the lien be removed from my auto as well as my original CPN. . . . I also continued to make interest payments on the account to illustrate my good faith but more importantly to save my credit history since they allegedly verified this account with all 3 CRAs. Moreover, the bank still has a lien on the car and so it follows that these crooks would immediately try to steal the car before they verify the debt.

Well the bank sent 2 repo guys to my house last week and basically referred the account to a CA. I sent an email to the CA and explained to them that the account was paid in full as of January 5, 2005, I sent the payment to the bank's attorney, and that litigation would commence if they take any action that causes injury to my property or financial well being. . . . . . I haven't heard from the CA since.

Well yesterday the bank starts calling me again and threatens to report my car stolen if I don't call them back by 5pm! I never spoke to anyone by phone but, in this case, I felt compelled to call the bill collector. Again, I explained to the collector that the account is paid and has been paid since January 5, 2005. First the collector admitted that he never heard of that attorney before and even asked me for the attorney's contact information!!!!!!!!!! He also wanted to know how did I find the attorney. Then he changed his story and claimed that his attorney gave him a copy of my letters and CPN and the attorney told him to collect the debt and ignore my request for verification/proof of claim. . . . . . .Actually I mailed a courtesy copy of the VOD/CPN to the account manager at that office.

The collector then proceeded to demand a check to payoff the bogus account and I refused citing HJR192. He then became upset and admitted that he didn't understand the legal arguments I raised in my letters and stated that I would never win in court and that I just want to pay when I feel like it . . . . He also said that he will get a court order that will force me to hand over the car to the bank . . . . . He admitted that he did not have a legal background to understand my arguments but, at the same time, he refused to consult his bank attorney for guidance. Instead, he just kept demanding payment from me. Can someone say *negligence*???

Then he dug himself deeper in the hole by first asking me why I continued to make interest payments on the account when the account was already paid with the CPN, then by saying that I am purposely refusing to make payments on the account . . . . (LOL). In response to his first question, I told him that I continued to make interest payments because the bank has made derogatory statements about my financial habits to third parties such as the CRAs and I am trying to protect my creditworthiness. I also stated that the bank is committing extortion by threatening to steal my car, my only means of transportation, if I don't continue to pay on this bogus account. He was silent after that.

And in response to his second question about me refusing to make payments on the account, I reminded the collector that I continued to make interest payments on this bogus account and that the bank cashed all of my money orders. I then asked him what happened to the money and he claimed that it was applied to my account.

He then said that I still had a past due balance and asked me why I am so hostile towards the bank. I told him because the bank defrauded me and made me enter into a fraudulent contract. He asked me why did I take so long to dispute the validity of this contract and I informed him that the statue of limitations for fraud in New York is 6 years from the date of discovery and I discovered the bank's fraud in December 2004. He was silent after that.

He then went into this spiel about me signing the contract and I asked him *What did I agree to??* Who funded the loan check? Did the bank lend me its own money? Other depositors' money? Or did I fund my own *loan*? The collector said that he does not know the answer to my question . . . . .

In summary, I told him that I will pay him anything he wants since I am under duress, based on his threats to steal my car if I don't give the bank more money. He demanded an additional $550 by wire transfer by next Wednesday and I unwillingly complied (again). He also said that, even if I pay the money, that he will still repossess the car!!!!!!!!!! I told him to repeat that statement and he quickly retracted and proceeded to give me the wire transfer information. . . . I then warned him that, if in the event the bank steals my car, I will promptly report the car stolen. I also told him that I intend to commence litigation action against him personally and the bank to recover ALL monies paid towards this alleged account, plus penalties, interests, and fees. . . . . He was silent after that.
__________________________________________________ _
So guys that's where I'm at with this car loan. The car is still safe but I really need a way to get this collector to make these blaring admissions in writing before I proceed with a court case. Any suggestions?

[weishaupt1776]

It may be tough to get them to put it in writing. So instead arrange a meeting, tell the you are recording. Bring a Notary as a witness or have the notary ask your questions because it is against the law to lie to a notary. Tell them you watnt to see their facts & evidence.MAKE A RECORD.
organize some "bear trap" questions
Transcribe it with your witness, make an affidavit of the transcription word for word w/you &notaries verification. send it to them & say if they don't rebut it
in xxxxdays, it stands at law

Originally Posted by cute_chick

Hey all. Here is a small update on my VODs and my bout with the banks. As you may recall, I sent the bank that allegedly financed my car loan a VOD and a CPN around December 2004. I sent the VOD directly to the Bank's attorney. He never replied and I launched a default letter to him last week, which not only declared this bogus account discharged and void but also demanded that the lien be removed from my auto as well as my original CPN. . . . I also continued to make interest payments on the account to illustrate my good faith but more importantly to save my credit history since they allegedly verified this account with all 3 CRAs. Moreover, the bank still has a lien on the car and so it follows that these crooks would immediately try to steal the car before they verify the debt.

Well the bank sent 2 repo guys to my house last week and basically referred the account to a CA. I sent an email to the CA and explained to them that the account was paid in full as of January 5, 2005, I sent the payment to the bank's attorney, and that litigation would commence if they take any action that causes injury to my property or financial well being. . . . . . I haven't heard from the CA since.

Well yesterday the bank starts calling me again and threatens to report my car stolen if I don't call them back by 5pm! I never spoke to anyone by phone but, in this case, I felt compelled to call the bill collector. Again, I explained to the collector that the account is paid and has been paid since January 5, 2005. First the collector admitted that he never heard of that attorney before and even asked me for the attorney's contact information!!!!!!!!!! He also wanted to know how did I find the attorney. Then he changed his story and claimed that his attorney gave him a copy of my letters and CPN and the attorney told him to collect the debt and ignore my request for verification/proof of claim. . . . . . .Actually I mailed a courtesy copy of the VOD/CPN to the account manager at that office.

The collector then proceeded to demand a check to payoff the bogus account and I refused citing HJR192. He then became upset and admitted that he didn't understand the legal arguments I raised in my letters and stated that I would never win in court and that I just want to pay when I feel like it . . . . He also said that he will get a court order that will force me to hand over the car to the bank . . . . . He admitted that he did not have a legal background to understand my arguments but, at the same time, he refused to consult his bank attorney for guidance. Instead, he just kept demanding payment from me. Can someone say *negligence*???

Then he dug himself deeper in the hole by first asking me why I continued to make interest payments on the account when the account was already paid with the CPN, then by saying that I am purposely refusing to make payments on the account . . . . (LOL). In response to his first question, I told him that I continued to make interest payments because the bank has made derogatory statements about my financial habits to third parties such as the CRAs and I am trying to protect my creditworthiness. I also stated that the bank is committing extortion by threatening to steal my car, my only means of transportation, if I don't continue to pay on this bogus account. He was silent after that.

And in response to his second question about me refusing to make payments on the account, I reminded the collector that I continued to make interest payments on this bogus account and that the bank cashed all of my money orders. I then asked him what happened to the money and he claimed that it was applied to my account.

He then said that I still had a past due balance and asked me why I am so hostile towards the bank. I told him because the bank defrauded me and made me enter into a fraudulent contract. He asked me why did I take so long to dispute the validity of this contract and I informed him that the statue of limitations for fraud in New York is 6 years from the date of discovery and I discovered the bank's fraud in December 2004. He was silent after that.

He then went into this spiel about me signing the contract and I asked him *What did I agree to??* Who funded the loan check? Did the bank lend me its own money? Other depositors' money? Or did I fund my own *loan*? The collector said that he does not know the answer to my question . . . . .

In summary, I told him that I will pay him anything he wants since I am under duress, based on his threats to steal my car if I don't give the bank more money. He demanded an additional $550 by wire transfer by next Wednesday and I unwillingly complied (again). He also said that, even if I pay the money, that he will still repossess the car!!!!!!!!!! I told him to repeat that statement and he quickly retracted and proceeded to give me the wire transfer information. . . . I then warned him that, if in the event the bank steals my car, I will promptly report the car stolen. I also told him that I intend to commence litigation action against him personally and the bank to recover ALL monies paid towards this alleged account, plus penalties, interests, and fees. . . . . He was silent after that.
__________________________________________________ _
So guys that's where I'm at with this car loan. The car is still safe but I really need a way to get this collector to make these blaring admissions in writing before I proceed with a court case. Any suggestions?

very interesting development. i believe what's throwing them off is you paying the interest on the account as i understand it. the c.a. might be telling you the truth about not understanding what you're doing. they're so used to people just handing over the vehicle voluntarily or at the first mention of repodude.

my case has been about debt validation and proof of claim that i am the alleged party who signed the note and made payments. nobody from the auto lender or their assigns/special investigators/collectors was able to
answer my validation and request for documentation so now they've taken it to court where i'm in the discovery process.
i never issued any CPN or made payments after i requested initial validation.

if you end up in court, you might want to think of having a very clear strategy
of how to explain the interest payments and why you issued a CPN. i don't think any of these theories about "created money", "no money lent", etc. will hold any water in court. i understand the principle behind all our discussions but we need positive results first.

remember, these bozos just want your payments or the vehicle and that's how they will explain it to the judge. all they do is make copies of all documents you signed and present them as "debt evidenced by copies of promissory note/agreement". also, they're very good at trying to intimidate and threaten to do this and that. i wouldn't communicate with anybody unless it's certified mail. tell them you have all the papertrail to prove your case and you'll see them in court and let the judge decide.

remember that anybody who tries to collect on this debt must comply with FDCPA. if you file a lawsuit it should be in u.s. district court.

just my .02 and not legal advise....blah...blah....

Thanks all for responding so far.

PJ: Yes I believe I have a very clear strategy. The premise of my argument is Breach of Contract and all the related contract theories such as fraud, lack of consideration and other arguments that will prove that a valid and legally enforceable contract never existed. I would never argue that the bank created money out of thin air or related arguments to that effect.

The CPN is justified under what is called and accord and satisfaction - not to mention the UCC, HJR 192, and the federal legal tender cases.

The interest payments are justified by the fact that the bank is threatening to ruin my credit worthiness and steal my car if I don't pay. In legal terms, this translates to extortion, defamation, larceny, violation of the FCRA, etc. etc.

Am I on track?

[gregtu]

Cute_Chick, better yet, write up your own contract with the bank. Give them five days to accept or reject your terms of the contract and you can go from there. It's time we start writing our own contracts for them as they do to us. Remember, it's your contract you can put what you want in it. One thing, they better respond!!!! If not, guess what, they just agreed to your terms.

[vanton57]

Be careful on your contract. Accord and Satisfaction equates to Bilateral agreement which means you will most likely lose because in all probability they will not agree.

You need to write the contract as a Unilateral so that the requirement for both parties to agree is not there. Their actions are agreement and should be enforceable.

Read over the credit card agreements and term change inserts in your credit card bill. Watch the terminology and phrasing of their agreement.

[vanton57]

Weis

Lieing to a notary???


Telling a lie to a notary is no different to telling a lie to the store clerk.

What is illegal IS Telling a lie under oath or affirmation ..............

The notary is a human being, flesh and blood, just like everyone else. You can lie to me all day and it is not a crime. If I put you under Oath/Affirmation and you lie about whatever event or reason it is you are under oath/affirmation for will become perjury which is a felony.

You really can lie to me all day otherwise.

Originally Posted by cute_chick

Thanks all for responding so far.

PJ: Yes I believe I have a very clear strategy. The premise of my argument is Breach of Contract and all the related contract theories such as fraud, lack of consideration and other arguments that will prove that a valid and legally enforceable contract never existed. I would never argue that the bank created money out of thin air or related arguments to that effect.

The CPN is justified under what is called and accord and satisfaction - not to mention the UCC, HJR 192, and the federal legal tender cases.

The interest payments are justified by the fact that the bank is threatening to ruin my credit worthiness and steal my car if I don't pay. In legal terms, this translates to extortion, defamation, larceny, violation of the FCRA, etc. etc.

Am I on track?

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A PLAN. GOOD LUCK .
VANTON57 MAKES A GOOD POINT ABOUT CONTRACTS THOUGH.

COULD YOU POST ANY FEDERAL LEGAL TENDER CASES? THE ONLY ONES I'VE FOUND ARE FROM THE 1800'S. ANYTHING AFTER 1933?

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by vanton57

You really can lie to me all day otherwise.

wanna get married?

[vanton57]

Weis

LOL :O)~


Bouvier’s 1856 Law Dictionary

CONSIDERATION, contracts. A compensation which is paid, or all inconvenience suffered by the, party from whom it proceeds.

Express act of receipt and acceptance by plaintiff:

They received my check and processed it.


From Bouvier’s 1856 Law Dictionary



IMPLICATION. An inference of something not directly declared, but arising from what is admitted or expressed.



EXPRESS. The opposite of implied. It is a rule, that when a matter or thing is expressed, it ceases to be implied by law: expressum facit cessare tacitum. Co. Litt. 183; 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 97.



Plaintiff’s express and implicating act of receipt and acceptance bars other action:



If Plaintiff accepts the benefit of an offer it cannot avoid the obligations of the offer, as per:



St. Louis Envelope Co. v. Centralia Mut. Bene. Ass’n., 1944, 53 N.E.2d 725, 322 Ill. App. 75, which held that one accepting the benefit of an offer cannot avoid its obligations.



Plaintiff can not at the same time accept the benefit of a bargain and reject the duties and obligations of the bargain as per:



Aetna Inv. Corporation v. Chandler Landscape and Floral CO., 227 Mo.App. 17, 50 S.W.2d. 195, 197 and In re Larney’s Estate, 148 Misc. 871, 266 N.Y.S. 563.




Hobbs v Massasiot Whip Co. 158 Mass 194, 33 N.E. 495 (1893)

“The proposition stands on the general principal that conduct which imports acceptance or assent is acceptance or assent in the view of the law, whatever may have been the actual state of mind of the party- a principal sometimes lost sight of in the cases.”



Restatement of Contracts Sec. 3.21



Article 1 at Section 10 of the constitution for the United States of America provides:



“..no state shall pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts.”



HALE v. HENKEL, 201 U.S. 43 (1906) (underlining added):



“The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited.”