Wrong Name on CC

[juststartingout]

On behalf of a friend who posts here but internet is down...

Said friend is preparing VOD/CPN. Upon preprations, noticed that the debt collector is addressing the person that allegedly owes the debt with the wrong middle initial. The original CC that the alleged debt regards also had the wrong middle initial. Should the friend send a VOD/CPN? Would the friend have issues if signing it with their correct FName correct MI and Lname? Or should the friend go disregard VOD/CPN and just say they don't owe anything b/c they need to prove that the alleged debt is even addressed to the right "person"?

[seeker]

is a thread regarding sending a CPN for a debt not validated --- as for the name thing -- that should be one of the items to be Validated/verified -- after all it is NOT your STRAWMAN -- someone messed up. There may be another John Jones == John J Jones John L Jones -- which is the correct party? ESPECIALLY if you have documentation that it is NOT you. Sounds like a atch-22 for the CCC/DA.

Seeker

[juststartingout]

thx. off to search for it!

[juststartingout]

having a hard time finding the above mentioned thread :hmmm wish the search engine let me do more narrowed searches... or else i'm using it wrong (using the advanced) do you know/recall about when it was being discussed?

[doormonkey]

What effect does an incorrect middle initial have on a CC?

[Judge Roy Bean]

****Like everything on this site - this is not legal advice. It's probably only worth about as much as you're paying for it, which is nothing!****

Originally Posted by doormonkey

I am the friend mentioned on this post, by JustStartingOut, on July 5 of this year, by the same title.

A debt collection attorney is threatening to sue my husband and myself for nearly $10,000, and they wasted no time mentioning court expenses etc. (several years of unemployment you see) I was busy preparing the VOD-CPN etc. but that wrong middle initial on my husband's name kept jumping out at me. That's all that's wrong...the middle initial. It has been that way all along, on the CC as well.

That's not all that uncommon an error. Many people have cards, phone numbers, utility bills, etc., with their names misspelled. I have yet to see that invalidate a debt on its own; the fact that you acquired things under the name on the card and still possess them is usually sufficient.

If the debt isn't valid they can't even threaten to sue you, but they can try and collect it. Weird how the law works - they can legally try to cajole you into paying it even if you don't owe it - but they can't threaten to sue you knowing the debt isn't valid.

Originally Posted by doormonkey

Nevertheless, I don't want to make any mistakes, if I can avoid them. I'm worried, because we have been so %#?! cooperative with them for about 2 years, sending them our budget, negotiating on the phone, all the time thinking we were doing the "honorable" thing. (So much for financial counseling...I won't name the organization, but they have an excellent reputation among people of faith)

The debt collector/attorney has been working with you for two years and has "an excellent reputation among people of faith?" I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding that. Were you involved with a credit counseling program and now something has gone wrong and a debt-collector has become involved?

First, understand the attorney arm of the collector is used to cause just exactly what you're feeling now - fear. They prey on people's fear. They have no more power or authority than your average phone jockey. They have an official-looking logo and a bunch of computer-generated threat letters.

Second, get off the phone. They know how to use your conversation against you. They are trained and no matter how smart you are, you're dealing with trained collectors who deal with hundreds of people every day. They've heard everything and have an answer for just about anything and far too many of them are not above telling you flat-out lies.

There is no legal requirement for you to communicate with them and every call they make has an objective - to put you under more stress and get you to tell them more about your situation. That information is power.

Originally Posted by doormonkey

So, I'm concerned that I may only have one shot at this, and I'm not sure my knowledge (lack therof) or central nervous system is up for a court date. If my husband has to be in the courtroom, we will get chewed up alive. He doesn't have time to learn any of this, and I haven't yet gotten it completely into my head, let alone out of my mouth.

I would rather have this be straightforward, just send the VOD-CPN and be done with it, but I'm not sure I can actually discharge the debt with the wrong strawman. If my husband signs his name correctly, is it an effective contract? If he signs it incorrectly, is he violating some statute that can later come back to bite him? Or is there another strategy that will work better in this type of situation?

These people are threatening to come after us and garnish 100% of my husbands wages, which he knocks himself out to earn 6 days a week. I have read on other posts that there are cases where a judgement has been awarded, and without notice, a bank account can just get completely cleared out. If that happened, we'd be down for the count. No house, only a shelter...with 7 children!!!

Thirdly, in the states I'm familiar with, they can't garnish anything, let alone 100% of anyone's wages, particularly for unsecured debt. They may be able to take you to court and get a judgement from the court against you by filing suit, but until they actually have that ruling in their greedy little hands, they can't touch your husband's wages or get anywhere near your bank account.

Originally Posted by doormonkey

My husband is a subcontractor so he is self-employed, but the contractor he works for may not know how to handle things if someone approaches him to garnish wages and probably won't care to learn. He will probably just cooperate, even though he may not be required to. He's the guy providing most of the work these days. We can barely live on 100% of my husband's wages, because we're busy catching up, let alone only part of them. We'd be doing fine if we could just get current.

Our family has pulled together through this. My 3 eldest sons are working to contribute towards getting out of this crisis, and even the little ones offer us what they can to help.

Can they put a lien on our home to pay the debt?

Not for unsecured debt. You need to expand your scope of study.

Originally Posted by doormonkey

As you can see, I barely have a grasp on the basics here. I'm reading into the night many nights, but don't feel I have much time before some unknown terrible thing could happen. These folks aren't giving us any breathing space in which to get back on our feet and recover. This is keeping me up worrying many nights...so I guess it's better to read and inform myself than worry. Having our teenage sons busy as co-providors rather than pursuing their education is not exactly our dream for their precious youths either, though they are very cheerful about their role in this regard.

Jersee's success story has really encouraged me. All this theory confuses me though. I tend to learn most easily by doing after I read. Then I really get down the theory, and can actually explain it to others. The stakes seem rather high with this though. If I "do" something wrong, what is the likelihood of getting in worse trouble than ever?

They don't penalize pro-se litigants just for defending themselves - they roll their eyes and wish people wouldn't play lawyer in their courtroom, but the end result is almost always that if you bought things on a credit card and haven't paid it off (and you've already admitted to them you did) the creditor obtains a judgment in their favor and then, depending on your state, things can get ugly.

VERY FEW pro-se litigants win in these cases. Much of what you see on the forums here is interesting theory for discussion about the nature of debt that fails at trial.

Originally Posted by doormonkey

So, I need things explained very simply, no assumptions of prior knowledge or I will get lost. I have the list of abbreviations, but if I don't get something, and seem very obtuse, it's because I AM very obtuse. :confused:

Thank you for your time, and for this website.

[doormonkey]

The debt collector/attorney has been working with you for two years and has "an excellent reputation among people of faith?" I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding that. Were you involved with a credit counseling program and now something has gone wrong and a debt-collector has become involved?

Judge, look at my post again. I never mentioned a debt collector/attorney who has been working with us for two years, who has an excellent reputatoin among people of faith. That would be weird. I mentioned a financial counselor. They don't negotiate with CC's or anything like that. Nuf said.

Anyway, thank you for your encouragement. I'm getting more courageous here. When you say "things can get nasty"...that seems to contradict what you said prior to that, regarding the inability to garnish wages and put liens on homes for unsecured debt. Could you elaborate?? What specific type nasties happen in court? It's not a trial though is it?

Thank you for your time.

[dashboy]

Doormonkey,

do not get discouraged!! For as smart as Judge Roy is, the facts remain that from just about all of his posting here on Sui Juris, he is good at telling you what you can't do and never seems to offer any specifics on what you CAN do to help yourself.

This is what I think to be important but in the end it is up to you to decide on how you proceed.

First, the burden of proof is upon them! They must prove that you and your husband owe upon a VALID debt. Offer to pay the debt, but only after they provide you with Proof! What proof??? Well to begin with you need to see with your own eyes your original blue ink signature on the original contract/agreement they claim you or your husband owe upon. This would be the original promissory note or credit card application. But understand that it does not stop there. It must also be unaltered!

Secondly, who's note or application is it. In others words, who holds rights, title, and interest in the underlying asset of the note? Do they? If so, what proof do they have that they do? Mere possesion does not automatically mean ownership! If I steal your kidds bike does that make me owner of it? If you intrust me with your kidds bike while you and the family are on vacation, does that make me owner of it??

What they don't tell you can hurt you! And what they don't tell you is that these notes are debt securities governed under Article 8 of your states UCC and federal securities law. So how did they acquire ownership of the note?
Also in understnading who the owner of the note/asset is, think on this:

1. We know it is against federal law for a bank to loan its own assets,
2. We know it is against federal law for a bank to loan its own credit,
3. We also know that a bank can not loan out other depositors asset without first getting that depositors written authorization to do so first.

With these three things being the factual case, who's "money did they loan you?

Thirdly, and what I think to be most important is that the promissory note and or credit card application is a EVIDENCE OF INDEBTEDNESS......NOT THE DEBT ITSELF. Where lies the "situs" of the "DEBT"????? Or in layman terms, WHERE IS THE DAM DEBT?
(247 U.S. 142; 38 S. Ct. 452;62 L. Ed. 1038 MARIN v. AUGEDAHL No. 227)Promissory notes are only evidences of debt and not the debts themselves. Their situs, therefore, is not the situs of the debts; the situs of the debts is at the residence of one or the other of the parties to the relation.


People have a hard time getting their brain to comprehend this last one, but with study you can! Doormonkey, do not get fustrated or discouraged! Do what is right and Honorable!

dashboy~

[dashboy]

ACCEPTABLE COLLATERAL FOR 31 CFR PART 202

(Depositaries and Financial Agents of the Government)

Effective: September 9, 2004

Last Updated: September 9, 2004
CATEGORY 1: -- Obligations issued and fully insured or guaranteed by the

United States Government or a United States Government agency. (Also, see Category 4 for insured or guaranteed educational loans.)

Department of the Treasury -

www.publicdebt.treas.gov

Bills [BILL]

Notes [NOTE]

Bonds [BOND]

Inflation-Indexed Note [TRIN]

Inflation-Indexed Bond [TRIB]

Treasury STRIPS

STRIPS - Physical Corpus

STRIPS - Physical Coupons

STRIPS - Book-Entry Coupons [TINT or CUBE]

Zero Coupon - Callable Corpus [TCAL]

Zero Coupon - Non-Callable Corpus [TPRN]

Inflation-Indexed Note Corpus [TPIN]

Inflation-Indexed Bond Corpus [TPIB]

Inflation-Indexed Interest Component [TIIN]

Department of Agriculture -

www.usda.gov

Commodity Credit Corporation

Export Credit Guaranteed Obligations

Farm Service Agency (FSA) -

www.fsa.usda.gov

Insured Notes

Rural Business-Cooperative Service (RBS) -

www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs

Guaranteed Business and Industry Loans

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Certificates of Beneficial Ownership (CBO) [FHOC]

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Guaranteed Loans

Department of Commerce - www.commerce.gov


National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration - www.noaa.gov

Guaranteed Fishing Vessel Loans


Department of Health and Human Services - www.hhs.gov

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Loan Guarantee Program for Health Center Facilities

Loan Guarantees for Medical Facilities

Loan Guarantees for Teaching Facilities for Health Professions

1

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Debentures

Ginnie Mae (Government National Mortgage Association) - www.ginniemae.gov

All securities guaranteed under:



GNMA I Mortgage-Backed Securities Program [GNMI, GNSN, GNCL, GNPL, GPMI]

GNMA II Mortgage-Backed Securities Program [GNII, GNAR, GPII]

GNMA Multiclass Program

Platinum Certificates

REMICs [GNRM, GNRA]

Callable Class Securities [GNCT]

Stripped Mortgage-Backed Securities (SMBS) Program [GNST]

Public Housing Agency

Public Housing Agency Bonds

(Issued under Section 11 of U.S. Housing Act of 1937 for Public Housing Program)

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Section 108 Government Guaranteed Notes

Section 108 Government Guaranteed Participation Certificates

Department of Transportation - www.dot.gov

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Secured Loans, Loan Guarantees, and Lines of Credit issued under the

Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act of 1998, Section

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Railroad Loans and Loan Guarantees issued under Title V of the Railroad Revitalization and Regulatory Reform Act of 1976

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Title XI Ship & Shipyard Guaranteed Obligations

Department of Veterans Affairs - www.va.gov

VA-Backed Mortgages

Collateralized Mortgage Obligations (CMO)

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All Export-Import Bank Guaranteed Loans

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Guaranteed Notes

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SBIC Participation Certificates, including Participating Security Trust Certificates

Loans Made by 3rd Party Lenders under Section 7 of the Small Business Act of 1953, as amended. Must represent interests in the guaranteed portions of Section 7(a) SBA guaranteed

loans:

Secondary Market Certificates

2

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Notes and Bonds guaranteed under:

Worldwide Housing Guarantee Program (22 U.S.C §§ 2181-82)

Israel Guarantee Program (21 U.S.C. 2186)

Emergency Wartime Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2003 Guaranteed Notes Program (Title I of Pub. Law 108-11)

[dashboy]

CATEGORY 2: -- Obligations of United States Government-Sponsored Enterprises

(GSEs) and Government-Sponsored Corporations (GSCs) that under specific statute may be accepted as security for public funds.

Farm Credit System (FCS) - www.fca.gov

Federal Farm Credit Funding Corporation - www.farmcredit-ffcb.com/

Federal Farm Credit Banks Consolidated Systemwide Medium-Term Notes [FCBD]

Optional Principal Redemption Medium-Term Notes [FCAS or FCOR]

Floating-Rate Notes [FCFR]

Federal Farm Credit Banks Consolidated Systemwide Discount Notes [FCDN]

Federal Farm Credit Banks Consolidated Systemwide Bonds [FCSB]

Optional Principal Redemption Bonds [FCSF or FCOR]

Federal Farm Credit Banks Global Debt Securities {U.S. Dollar-denominated only}

Stripped Components [FCPR, FCCP, FCIN, or FCZC]

Farm Credit Financial Assistance Corporation

Farm Credit Assistance Corporation Bonds [FCAC]

Farm Credit Assistance Corporation Optional Principal Redemption Bonds [FASF]

Federal Agricultural Mortgage Corporation (Farmer Mac) - www.farmermac.com

Discount Notes [FFDN]

Medium-Term Notes [FFNT, FFFR, FFAR]

Bonds [FFBD, FFAS, FFVP]

Optional Principal Redemption Securities [FFOR]

Agricultural Mortgage-Backed Securities [FFPA]

Stripped Components [FFIN, FFPR, FFCP, or FFZC]

Federal Home Loan Bank System - www.fhlb.com or www.fhlb-of.com

Discount Notes [FHDN]

Consolidated Bonds

Fixed-Rate Bonds [FHLG]

Floating-Rate Bonds [FHFR]

Medium-Term Bonds [FHBD]

Consolidated Bonds [FHLB]

Optional Principal Redemption Bonds [FHAS, FHOR or FHSF]

Redemption Bonds [FHAS]

Multi-Currency [FHMC] {U.S. Dollar-denominated only}

Stripped Components [FHPR, FHCP, FHIN, FHOR, FHPR, or FHZC]

Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) - www.freddiemac.com

Reference Bill Program

Reference Note Program

Reference Bond Program [FMAS or FMSF]

Debentures

Subordinated Debt [FMDS or FMNS]

Capital Debentures [MCCD]

3

Debenture Bonds [MCDB]

Floating-Rate Debentures [FMFR]

Discount Notes [FMDN]

Global Notes {U.S. Dollar-denominated only}

Medium-Term Notes [FMNT or FMFR]

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Callable Corpus Components [FMPR, FMCP, FMZC or ZCCD]

Interest Components [FMIN]

Mortgage-Backed Securities:

Participation Certificates (PC)

Including Giant PC and other Pass-Through PC

[FMPC, FGPC, FMAR, FGAR, FMPC, FGRM, FRAR, FRRA or FRST]

Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduits (REMIC)

[FMRA, FFRA, FGRA, FMRM, FRRM, FMHF or FTRA]

Collateralized Mortgage Obligations (CMO) [FMMO]

Guaranteed Mortgage Certificates (GMC)

Mortgage Cash Flow Obligations (MCF) [FMMO]

Funding Notes [FMPT or FMPA]

Stripped Components [FMST or FGST]

Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) - www.fanniemae.com

Benchmark Bills

Short-Term Notes (Discount Notes) [FNDN]

Global Debt Facility Debt Securities [FNSM or FNMC] {U.S. Dollar-denominated only}

Benchmark Notes

Callable Benchmark Notes

Medium-Term Notes [FNNT, FNFR or FNSB]

Benchmark Bonds

Debentures [FNCD]

Subordinated Debt (including Capital Debentures)

General Unsecured Fannie Mae Debt Obligations

Stripped Components [FNCP, FNPR, FNZC or FXST]

Mortgage-Backed Securities:

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Guaranteed REMIC Securities

[FDRA, FDRM, FNRM, FNRA, FXRM, FXRA, FXCM, FXCA, FNCA,

FNCM or FQRA]

Guaranteed Grantor Trust Pass-Through Securities

FASITs (Financial Asset Securitization Investment Trust)

Stripped Components [FNST or FNIN]

Financing Corporation (FICO) - (www.fhfb.gov)

Bonds [FICO]

Stripped Components [FIPR, FIIN, or FICP]

Resolution Funding Corporation (REFCORP)

Bonds [RFBD]

Stripped Components [RFIN, RFCP, or RFPR]

4

Student Loan Marketing Association (Sallie Mae) - www.salliemae.com

Convertible Subordinated Debentures and Notes [SLNT]

Discount Notes [SLDN]

Medium-Term Notes

Fixed-Rate Notes [SLMN]

Floating-Rate Notes [SLFR]

Bonds [SLBD]

Global Floating Rate [SLGF]

Global Notes [SLGN or SLMC]

Sinking Fund [SLSF]

Stripped Components [SLPR, SLCP, or SLIN]

Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) - www.tva.gov

Power Bonds [TVBD]

Discount Notes [TVDN]

Floating Rate Notes [TVFR]

Putable Automatic Rate Reset Securities (PARRS)

Stripped Components [TVCP, TVIN, or TVPR]

CATEGORY 3:

-- Obligations issued or fully guaranteed by international


development banks. (These obligations are only acceptable if denominated in U.S. Dollars)

World Bank Group - www.worldbank.org

International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD or World Bank) - www.worldbank.org/ibrd

Notes [WBNT or WBFR]

Discount Notes [WBDN]

Bonds [WBBD or WBGB]

World Bank securities offered under the following programs:

COLTS (Continuously Offered Longer-Term Securities) [WBCF or WBCV]

GMTN (Global Multi-Currency Notes)

GDIF (Global Debt Issuance Facility)

MLT (Medium Long-Term Notes)

CBF (Central Bank Facility)

GSTN (Global Short Term Notes)

Stripped Components [WBCP, WBPR, WBIN, WBCZ, or WBZC]

International Finance Corporation (IFC) - www.ifc.org