New Guy, CRA VOD Questions

[seeker]

Okay, so if you don't us an NP for CC to discharge the debt after you have sent your BoE and they have not answered your CA request for validation of debt, what do you do?& How else can you prove that there is no "dispute" just a lack of honor on their part to validate?& This is the private side of the judicial system r/t the public side -- two parties vs third party inter meddling.


Have I missed something?& Thanks for all suggestions and thoughts!


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[Bird]

rushpat, seeker:


The fact that your adversary is&in dishonor is not dependent on&your use of a notary.


rushpat: I actually like the "1-2-3 default method," as you put it.& But this tactic does not even require a notary (and I am&not even&sure&if one should be used for this purpose).&This method&can still be performed via third party.& Notice of Dishonor, Default,&or whatever,&can still be utilized.


I think it is a good idea to memorialize your adversary's dishonor, via some sort of third party certification.& However,&I was&informed&that&a notary is not even supposed to do that, and that such&tactic may constitute&acts beyond the scope of the powers&of a notary, because nowhere in the Notary Public Handbook is this&procedure mentioned.

bird,


from AZ's notary handbook:
<H6 class=section2><A name=pgfId-998310></A>§ 41-320. Competency of bank and corporation notaries</H6>
<P class=level-1><A name=pgfId-998311></A>A. It is lawful for a notary public who is a stockholder, director, officer or employee of a corporation to take the acknowledgment or oath of any party to any written instrument executed to or by the corporation, or to administer an oath to any other stockholder, director, officer, employee or agent of the corporation, or to protest for nonacceptance or nonpayment of bills of exchange, drafts, checks, notes and other negotiable instruments which may be owned or held for collection by the corporation. [emphasis mine]
<P class=level-1>notaries can issue protests which are evidence of dishonor and can be used to obtain a judgement.& or so i think.& i may be wrong...
<P class=level-1>jon

[seeker]

Reference The Notary's Manual -- ninth edition


Section 155 Protest


"Another of the duties of the notaries public is "When requested, to demand acceptance and payment if foreign, domestic and inland bill or promissary notes, and the same for nonacceptance and nonpayment ***(See Duties, Sec 5, sub 1 supra) This duty cannot be performed safely or intelligently without a knowledge of the rules of law governing negotiable instruments...."& p 124


There's more, but if you're interested, I believe there is a site with this manual listed.& You may also wish to reference Section 163, Inland and Foreign Bill, while refering to Black's for definition of said.


This is a form of documenting the process used to stay out of dispute and dishonor and attempting to resolution in the Private sector.& Thus having a recognizable third party with some judicial "teeth" -- notaries public have long since ceased to be taught this part of their duties, having been conditioned to think they are only "validators of signatures".& Worth a study, I think.


Thanks for all your input.& Will keep you posted.


Seeker

aye seeker, your reference to witness of signatures is quite appropriate when i read through AZ's notary handbook online - the focus was really on that.& 'twasn't until i did a search for "protest" that i came across the tidbit i found.


sneaky, they are...


jon

[Bird]

jmunison, seeker:


Yes, the Notary Public Handbook authorizes notaries to perform protests for nonacceptance and nonpayment bills of exchange, or promissory notes.& But I think the terms acceptance and payment may demand a closer scrutiny.& I posted a definition of acceptance as it relates to bills of exchanges (according to&Black's&Law)&earlier in this thread.&


<FONT size=1>"Acceptance, as it relates to BOE's is: The act by which the person on whom a bill of exchange is drawn (called the "drawee") assents to the request of the drawer to pay it, or, in other words, engages, or makes himself liable, to pay it when due.</FONT>


<FONT size=1>The above&acceptance&is in contradistinction to the&matter whether or not a payee gleefully receives (commonly thought of as accepts), a note we may tender."& </FONT>


And it appears that nonpayment refers to a&maker of a promissory note not fulfulling his promise (Payment = the fulfillment of a promise, or the performance of an agreement).&


So if the drawee does not pay or "make good" on the BoE, than a protest is in order.& And likewise, if&the maker of a&promissory note does not pay or "make good" on his promise, then it&appears a protest would also be in order to hold the maker of the note to his promise.&


&

[Jerseee]

I really do not think (not sure) that one should involve a notary since you already have their dishonor in their own words and by their own deeds.

Ice, correct me if I am wrong but, when they are in dishonor by their own deeds and words--that is admission.

Admission trumps evidence. This is why I like to use my method because they write and do their own dishonor--I don't have to corner them with security agreements (sometimes) because their greed or lack of knowledge will be their undoing. this is also the great power of acceptance. Accepting their refusal.

The CPN that CTC3 has is very powerful IMHO. That CPN puts them on notice as well as utilize your remedy.

thoughts...

ahhh, education...


in that case bird, you are indeed correct that a notary should not be involved in issuing protests against a tendered CPN/BoE that was not "gleefully received" - this would land the notary, and "you" in very hot water as it is outside the scope of the notary's power.


however, i can't help but get the feeling there is more to it than that...


after working with jerseee, i am in agreement with him that getting the other party to admit dishonor is the better way to go.& that is, after all, the only thing the judges look at when they examine a case - who's in dishonor...


jon