Checks and contracts

This is just a thought that I have had and I have not read all of the archives pertaining to the subject of banking and promissory notes.

My thought is this: What if the words "Payment in Full" are placed on the next check that is sent to the finance company/bank/credit card company, etc., and allow the cancelled and endorsed check to come back to you then notice the above mentioned that they have accepted a change in contract and that the debt is discharged without argument or nihil dicit for their lack response?

Variation on the theme: What if an entirely new contract in "microprint" is placed on the front of a similar check? And, it reads as follows:
THIS IS PAYMENT IN FULL TO ABCXYZ BANK AND UPON THEIR ACCEPTANCE OF THIS PAYMENT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF THE REMAINING BALANCE IS FULLY SATISFIED AND THEREFORE THE DEBT IS SATISFIED AND DISCHARGED. THE ENDORSER OF THIS PRESENTMENT IS IN FULL AGREEMENT BY THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS PRESENTMENT. FAILURE TO REFUTE THIS PRESENTMENT THREE (3) DAYS AFTER RECEIPT IS FULL AND IRREFUTABLE ACCEPTANCE OF THE CONTRACT AND ENDORSER HAS WAIVED ANY RIGHT TO RECOURSE OF THIS CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT. ABCXYZ BANK UNDERSTANDS AND USES MICROPRINT AND WILL NOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THE PRESENTER OF THIS CONSIDERATION. FURTHERMORE, ABCXYZ BANK DOES NOT CONSIDER THIS TO BE ANY FORM OF PAPER TERRORISM.

In microprint form it is less than 5 inches in length and appears to be just a line of decoration on the check. It is the same size and clarity of font that the check contains for the signature line. This is no more or no less sneaky that the words "AUTHORIZING SIGNATURE" that is the substance and content of the signature line on the front of all personal checks.

On the back side is the additonal following:
THE ENDORSER OF THIS PRESENTMENT CHECK FOR PAYMENT IN FULL AGREES WITH THE CONTRACT ON THE FRONT OF THIS CHECK. THE CONTRACT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PAPER TERRORISM. ABCXYZ BANK WILLINGLY ACCEPTS THIS PRESENTMENT AS PAYMENT IN FULL. ABCXYZ BANK WILL NOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THE PRESENTER.

I have learned that a good laser printer can do this. MS Word/Word Perfect/Open Office all have the ability to create fonts down to size one(1) and when it is printed out is looks like a line. Under a 50X microscope the text can be read just like the signature line text and the text that they put on the back of the check too.

I have not done this myself but would like to give it a try.

1.) Is it illegal to do that to a check?
2.) Is the wording binding enough for the endorser?
3.) I am open to any and all suggestions, opinions and cites that might be in conjunction with this type of an action.

Psalm 119:165 "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

[scottinalaska]

Welcome aboard KJV,
Thank you for your creative approach to paying without the existence of "money" anyway!
Do note that at the end of your Signature line are the initials MP indicating that it is microprint preceding it. So, make sure you include very readable MP in your amended contract.
I like the idea, but I thought it was the bank's job and jurisdiction to handle the "fine print." They will certainly be angry if you take over their job. I'd like to see how it goes. Any other thoughts out there? It is another variation to bring closure to the "Debt" instrument.
scottinalaska

Originally Posted by kjvpatriot1611

This is just a thought that I have had and I have not read all of the archives pertaining to the subject of banking and promissory notes.

My thought is this: What if the words "Payment in Full" are placed on the next check that is sent to the finance company/bank/credit card company, etc., and allow the cancelled and endorsed check to come back to you then notice the above mentioned that they have accepted a change in contract and that the debt is discharged without argument or nihil dicit for their lack response?

Variation on the theme: What if an entirely new contract in "microprint" is placed on the front of a similar check? And, it reads as follows:
THIS IS PAYMENT IN FULL TO ABCXYZ BANK AND UPON THEIR ACCEPTANCE OF THIS PAYMENT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF THE REMAINING BALANCE IS FULLY SATISFIED AND THEREFORE THE DEBT IS SATISFIED AND DISCHARGED. THE ENDORSER OF THIS PRESENTMENT IS IN FULL AGREEMENT BY THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS PRESENTMENT. FAILURE TO REFUTE THIS PRESENTMENT THREE (3) DAYS AFTER RECEIPT IS FULL AND IRREFUTABLE ACCEPTANCE OF THE CONTRACT AND ENDORSER HAS WAIVED ANY RIGHT TO RECOURSE OF THIS CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT. ABCXYZ BANK UNDERSTANDS AND USES MICROPRINT AND WILL NOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THE PRESENTER OF THIS CONSIDERATION. FURTHERMORE, ABCXYZ BANK DOES NOT CONSIDER THIS TO BE ANY FORM OF PAPER TERRORISM.

In microprint form it is less than 5 inches in length and appears to be just a line of decoration on the check. It is the same size and clarity of font that the check contains for the signature line. This is no more or no less sneaky that the words "AUTHORIZING SIGNATURE" that is the substance and content of the signature line on the front of all personal checks.

On the back side is the additonal following:
THE ENDORSER OF THIS PRESENTMENT CHECK FOR PAYMENT IN FULL AGREES WITH THE CONTRACT ON THE FRONT OF THIS CHECK. THE CONTRACT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PAPER TERRORISM. ABCXYZ BANK WILLINGLY ACCEPTS THIS PRESENTMENT AS PAYMENT IN FULL. ABCXYZ BANK WILL NOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THE PRESENTER.

I have learned that a good laser printer can do this. MS Word/Word Perfect/Open Office all have the ability to create fonts down to size one(1) and when it is printed out is looks like a line. Under a 50X microscope the text can be read just like the signature line text and the text that they put on the back of the check too.

I have not done this myself but would like to give it a try.

1.) Is it illegal to do that to a check?
2.) Is the wording binding enough for the endorser?
3.) I am open to any and all suggestions, opinions and cites that might be in conjunction with this type of an action.

Psalm 119:165 "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

I have the feeling that if you put "Payment in Full" and it's not, the bank ect. will send it back and smack you with a late fee. As far as the microprint, well, some states have requirements that consumer contracts must be clear and legible. While this is not a contract, you're trying to do something binding without alerting the other party concerned. Bad idea.
P

KJV,

you are ultimatly trying to create an ACCORD & SATSIFACTION... however you are doing it incorrectly. you can do as you suggest, but there is nothing holding the other party to your agreement since you did not follow proper procedure.

look at UCC Article 3 Part 3, so you know what you are doing.

This thread has gotten several views and not too many comments.
I am open to any and all comments and criticism as long as it is constructive.
The only way to break new horizons is to hypothesize.

If someone has some good solid info about alteration of instruments and how it plays into the game, I am all ears.

kjvpatriot1611

(James 2:12 KJV) "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

(Psa 119:165 KJV) "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

[Jerseee]

Originally Posted by kjvpatriot1611

This thread has gotten several views and not too many comments.
I am open to any and all comments and criticism as long as it is constructive.
The only way to break new horizons is to hypothesize.

If someone has some good solid info about alteration of instruments and how it plays into the game, I am all ears.

kjvpatriot1611

(James 2:12 KJV) "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

(Psa 119:165 KJV) "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

KJV,

I agree. I say give it a try but be able to defend your actions if necessary. Equal protection under the law is paramount and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Further, I would be prepared for their response or actions. You may want to brainstorm the reply and/or consequence before hypothesizing the process. Any process is doable (within the bounds of honor), it is getting them to recognize it where the issue lies.

If they don't recognize it and you know it to be either honorable or their common practice used against them--then you should already have a few avenues of how to counter their response(s).

good luck

[seeker]

Look up the term in your Black's -- no need to be so secretive, they do it to us all time. Or don't you get those little pamphlets that say "changes to your cardholder 'agreement' "? (I use that term loosely, very loosely!) Type up your new Terms and print it in 8 pt and enclose the check that you reference within as "consideration' and make sure to include that if they cash it, they agree -- like they do with you -- "if you use the card, you agree", " if you don't disagree, in writing with x days, you agree", "if you don't cancel your card, you agree" Read one of those little suckers and take your cue from there. If you give them a "benefit" (the check) and they "excercise it" (cash), then they by action, "accept your terms". Next statement comes, you have proof they "excercised their benefit", and thus agreed to your terms.
Why sneak around about it, state your terms clearly -- just make sure they need their glasses to see all of them and send it to the chimps in the mail room -- the address on your statement. Like they will (or can!?!) read it anyway. They only look for the checks, etc. Read??? ha!

Seeker

Originally Posted by Pauligirl

I have the feeling that if you put "Payment in Full" and it's not, the bank ect. will send it back and smack you with a late fee. As far as the microprint, well, some states have requirements that consumer contracts must be clear and legible. While this is not a contract, you're trying to do something binding without alerting the other party concerned. Bad idea.
P

what makes you belive that this idea is not a contract? according to you, what would constitute "payment in full"?

as far as "clear and legible", have you read a credit card "agreement" lately?
do you understand exactly what it says? i don't.

Originally Posted by seeker

Look up the term in your Black's -- no need to be so secretive, they do it to us all time. Or don't you get those little pamphlets that say "changes to your cardholder 'agreement' "? (I use that term loosely, very loosely!) Type up your new Terms and print it in 8 pt and enclose the check that you reference within as "consideration' and make sure to include that if they cash it, they agree -- like they do with you -- "if you use the card, you agree", " if you don't disagree, in writing with x days, you agree", "if you don't cancel your card, you agree" Read one of those little suckers and take your cue from there. If you give them a "benefit" (the check) and they "excercise it" (cash), then they by action, "accept your terms". Next statement comes, you have proof they "excercised their benefit", and thus agreed to your terms.
Why sneak around about it, state your terms clearly -- just make sure they need their glasses to see all of them and send it to the chimps in the mail room -- the address on your statement. Like they will (or can!?!) read it anyway. They only look for the checks, etc. Read??? ha!

Seeker

i'm with you on this one seeker. here's what i found on another website:



YOUR CARD DISPUTE AND NOVATION
You can use the same process to enter into a new agreement with a card company, under your terms and conditions, by making the company an offer, which it can accept with an act. Simply, you send the card company a check for some amount, say $25, with the stated condition that by accepting the check, it agrees to your new terms and conditions (your Novation Contract). When the card company accepts the check by cashing it, it has agreed to your new Novation Contract. Your notice of debt dispute and Novation Contract is designed to do the following:

(1) Bind your credit card company to the terms and conditions of your Novation Contract which include but are not limited to:

a) the cancellation of any and all prior in-force agreements;

b) its admission that the debt and all prior agreements are now paid in full;

c) its waiver of all claimed right of arbitration against you;

d) its obligation to report the account in dispute as “paid as agreed” to credit reporting agencies;

e) its agreement to not take any collection activity against you and to inform any assignees of the account that it has agreed that the account is “paid as agreed”;

f) the requirement that it verify under oath the amount of debt you allegedly owe in any correspondence to you; and

g) its agreement that any breach of the terms of the Novation Contract by them will injure and damage you and that it will be liable for all damages;
(2) Upon notice, bind any and all collection agents of your credit card company and third party collection companies to your Novation Contract;.

(3) Establish a legal basis for a claim of zero liability for the disputed credit card account;
(4) Establish a legal basis for declaring invalid any and all allegations of debt made against you that are associated with the credit card account and sent through the U.S. mails; (5) Establish a legal basis for claiming injuries and damages should the credit card company or any collection agency breach the terms and conditions of your Novation Contract; and,

(6) Destroy any legal basis for the credit card company or any collection agent to ignore your card dispute and Novation Contract by your:

a) choosing and using a procedure permitted and recognized by contract common law, the Uniform Commercial Code, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and the Fair Credit Reporting Act;

b) establishing the card company’s obligation and third party collector’s obligation to verify under oath the amount of any debt they allege you owe;

c) removing any controversy between your demand for verification of any alleged debt and any and all presentments by third parties containing unverified allegations of debt against you; and,

d) removing any presumption that you willfully avoided a known debt.

[sadie]

Found some things on accord and satisfaction and restrictive endorsements

http://www.professionalroofing.net/a....aspx?A_ID=437

http://www.carreonandassociates.com/...ndorsement.htm
That's Cali law, I didn't make it up. The law is below:

1526. (a) Where a claim is disputed or unliquidated and a check or
draft is tendered by the debtor in settlement thereof in full
discharge of the claim, and the words "payment in full" or other
words of similar meaning are notated on the check or draft, the
acceptance of the check or draft does not constitute an accord and
satisfaction if the creditor protests against accepting the tender in
full payment by striking out or otherwise deleting that notation or
if the acceptance of the check or draft was inadvertent or without
knowledge of the notation.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the acceptance of a check or
draft constitutes an accord and satisfaction if a check or draft is
tendered pursuant to a composition or extension agreement between a
debtor and its creditors, and pursuant to that composition or
extension agreement, all creditors of the same class are accorded
similar treatment, and the creditor receives the check or draft with
knowledge of the restriction.
A creditor shall be conclusively presumed to have knowledge of the
restriction if a creditor either:
(1) Has, previous to the receipt of the check or draft, executed a
written consent to the composition or extension agreement.
(2) Has been given, not less than 15 days nor more than 90 days
prior to receipt of the check or draft, notice, in writing, that a
check or draft will be tendered with a restrictive endorsement and
that acceptance and cashing of the check or draft will constitute an
accord and satisfaction.
(c) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the acceptance of a check or
draft by a creditor constitutes an accord and satisfaction when the
check or draft is issued pursuant to or in conjunction with a release
of a claim.
(d) For the purposes of paragraph (2) of subdivision (b), mailing
the notice by first-class mail, postage prepaid, addressed to the
address shown for the creditor on the debtor's books or such other
address as the creditor may designate in writing constitutes notice.

http://www.mwgjs.com/Pages/JulySept1999/newsletter.htm


http://www.jordanschrader.com/articles/article0001.html


I had read a long time ago about the use of restrictive endorsement on checks for paying debts and I know there is some specific wording to be used in certain states. Sorry I can't find right now but check out the site under the california code above and that article show how 2 codes in california actually conflict.

I guess you can do a search for restrictive endorsement in your state to see what the specs are.