HSBC claiming fraud against me.

[chuckhs12]

I have recieved a reply from HSBC and they are claiming that I am committing fraud. I asked for verification of the debt and supplied a promissory note to accomodate the debt if valid.

They then replied to me with an injunction UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. the Dorean Group, The Oxford Trust, and Universal Trust.

Stating that I was commiting the similar acts such as 18 U.S.C. ss 1341 (Mail Fraud), 18 U.S.C. ss 1343 (Wire Fraud), and 18 U.S.C. (Bank Fraud).

I don't know where they are getting thier basis for this, but never the less they are trying it.

I am wondering if anyone else has run into the same or similar issue?

Thanks,
Chuck.

[Livefire]

JMHO.....since when does an injunction issued against Dorean or Oxford Trust apply to you.....that case is more to do concerning fraudulent conveyances than anything else.....DG's bond was supposedly backed by a Swiss bank.

They need to prove that your PN isnt backed by HJR 192, and they arent able to attempt to cash in on that without performing to the terms of your offer accompanying the note. Seems to me that tendering the CPN is the valuable consideration for your novation. Im sure Jerseee can give you a lot more insight on this than I can!

[Bird]

chuckhs12:

IMHO the assertions HSHB are making could be viewed as frivolous. It appears to be a desperate attempt of a scare tactic. The case they reference does not have anything at all to do with your request for verification, or use of a CPN. Also, although there is nothing wrong with a promissory note, I don't see the need for it. They would already have their hands with proving up their claim.

Please remember the issue is not about whether your note is valid, but rather it is about them proving their claim (verifying the debt). Don't let a them pull a jedi mind trick of shifting the burden on you. Althought that is not the primary reason I believe the CPN could be left out, a request for verification without the CPN wouldn't have afforded them the opportunity to skirt the issue, albeit temporarily, with frivolous claims re the validity of the CPN.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Originally Posted by chuckhs12

I have recieved a reply from HSBC and they are claiming that I am committing fraud. I asked for verification of the debt and supplied a promissory note to accomodate the debt if valid.

They then replied to me with an injunction UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. the Dorean Group, The Oxford Trust, and Universal Trust.

Stating that I was commiting the similar acts such as 18 U.S.C. ss 1341 (Mail Fraud), 18 U.S.C. ss 1343 (Wire Fraud), and 18 U.S.C. (Bank Fraud).

I don't know where they are getting thier basis for this, but never the less they are trying it.

I am wondering if anyone else has run into the same or similar issue?

Thanks,
Chuck.

I think more people who try this approach are about to see these kinds of threats. Dorean lost that one and it's being citied in a slew of other similar civil cases.

Presentment of bogus conditional promissory notes is a hot topic in the creditor's bar now that the two principals of the Dorean scam (basically the same thing but tying it in with a trust and mortgages instead of CC debt) are in jail and awaiting trial on the related federal charges.

In a lot of previous individual cases, it simply wasn't worth the time and money to drag a lone rogue debtor into a civil trial when the defendant had nothing to go after. They were content to just let it go to default then sell it off to the blood-suckers as a cost of doing business.

But now since taking part in the same kind of process is actually being prosecuted in a criminal case they seem to have grasped on a potential weapon in threatening to turn over their findings to the US Attorney for similar criminal investigations and even prosecution.

The real question is whether or not the US Attorney's office has the time and resources to do much more than put it in the growing pile with all the other relatively low-dollar scams.

Then again, to discourage copy-cats, they may want to make a few more highly-public examples like they do with the tax cases from time to time.

[D.Dog]

Originally Posted by chuckhs12

I have recieved a reply from HSBC and they are claiming that I am committing fraud. I asked for verification of the debt and supplied a promissory note to accomodate the debt if valid.

They then replied to me with an injunction UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. the Dorean Group, The Oxford Trust, and Universal Trust.

Stating that I was commiting the similar acts such as 18 U.S.C. ss 1341 (Mail Fraud), 18 U.S.C. ss 1343 (Wire Fraud), and 18 U.S.C. (Bank Fraud).

It seems to me they are commiting mail fraud by stating that something to be true that is not.

Continue with your affidavit after the time period has past. Your VOD states quite clearly that if they do not respond in a timley fashion with the information, they are in acceptance and have tacitly agreed there is no debt.

That letter may have been sent from their legal department but was hadled by an aid or paralegal in all liklyhood.

Stand upon your rights.

Ddog

[masterduke]

If this is the redone household finance co. I believe they are now owned by some bank from england and the cc payments go to a bank in nevada and then transfered to a trust held by another branch of hsbc in new york (hence the N.ational
A.fflitation) it is still an empty account, as all recievables that came in and are to come in are the property of that trust. Seems the banksters are starting to worry about people wising up to their scam (I know I have) Would the fraud accusation be as a result of using a cpn? The debt attorneys sure don't like 'em
they have been defeated in court by them in Mich. in some cases (where the case was handled correctly) If you were a bar member they would most likey use some other form of attack. If their attorneys they are not supposed to answer for their "clients" so whos who in that zoo? That determination needs to be made first. and get a copy of their investment prospectus (may be at the SEC website using "edgar" the search engine. find the correct 424B5 prospectus report, start reading)

Look up the statute of frauds in your state. Should be in the UCC for your state.

Demand they produce the original Note.

Period.

Henry Franklin