judgement by wolpoff and abramson

[stomper12000]

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[jeffmar10]

The arbitration clause has to be in the original agreement. Tell the to produce the original agreement, with the arbitration clause. Otherwise tell the to pound salt.

[stomper12000]

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[mameye]

Originally Posted by stomper12000

The arbitration clause was in the original agreement, my problem is that I feel that I was not given a chance to accept or decline arbitration; they won't issue cards if you don't accept their terms of agreement. Most people don't take time to read the fine print because they to eager to get a cc, but it says this in most new agreements today. You feel entrapped because of this effect of swindling, then they railroad you for rubbing them the wrong way. It's like accepting terms of agreement for most things; you don't read the terms because you only want to ge the item or service. Most of us feel that we don't need to read such things, I guess we need to nowadays. The point is that it's not made obvious about the arbitration agreement terms; no box you can check to accept or decline. Its mixed in with all the other stuff you don't really read.

If the arbitration clause was in the original agreement, couldn't the account holder set a novation on the first check sent to the company stating something like, "Cashing this check cancels and and all arbitration clauses in the current contract." Then when the arbitration decision comes down all you would need to do is show a copy of the cancelled check, front and back with the novation clearly stated...

Mike
PS - I know that this doesn't help in the current situation but I am thinking about using novation for a couple of accounts I currently use... Like dropping the severability clause so that whole agreements can be voided etc.

[seeker]

Did you file your Default in the Recorder's Office and have a certified copy sent to the judge/court? Did you have independent third party witness to the Default?

You could also, I think (and this is just my thoughts here), take the certified copy of the Default and send it with an accompanying complaint to the FTC and the AGs of both their state of origin and yours, and ask for a full and complete investigation into violations of the FCRA etc AND RICO -- after all, it says it only takes two such collusive actions to legitimize the fraud/RICOcomplaint. They did not respond to your VoD and you can prove it;you did not accept their invitation to arbitrate -- etc.

As to the clause being in the original agreement, telll them to 'Show you" -- bring the original wet ink signature documents that show a complete, true and not misleading statement of facts under TILA, on ALL points of the contract, written and implied, and let them proof that you had full disclosure when you signed -- although I would NEVER admit to it being my signature as it has not been in my possession since signature occurred and therefore, it may have been subject to any type of alteration or mishandling.

JMHO.

Seeker

[seeker]

And as to the "novation" with the first check -- they will tell you to just terminate the account if you do not agree to the terms -- it's in there -- but nothing saying you cannot do a novation, and substitute a new agreement as they do, "by excercise of benefit" (in your case, using the card, in their case, cashing the check). There has been an "exchange of value" and thereby the novation is valid. So the theory goes. Use their small print, gobblty-gook wording and slip it into the statement as they do -- we can just follow their lead in these things, I think!

Seeker

[masterduke]

If they have an arbitration ruling in their favor finding you responsible you have 90 days to file an "objection to their arbitration ruling" in the "Federal District Court" cause at day 91 they will file a summons and complaint for enforcement and the lawyer in the robe will grant it. You then have NO legal recourse and no way to even appeal it. It does sound like there is not "full disclosure" but you need to get your objection motion filed.

[stomper12000]

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[Judge Roy Bean]

Originally Posted by stomper12000

Am I right, that if payment is refused, the debt is cancelled?

No. The debt is not cancelled. You wasted your time with a meaningless, misguided ruse they and others like them have seen before and know how to deal with.

If the amount is significant, and you have any assets or an income that can be garnished, they will probably go to court and get a judgment. They may also turn their information over to the US Attorney's office for possible fraud prosecution. (Enough people are trying these bogus schemes that it's actually starting to get their attention.)

If it's mouse nuts and you don't have assets or an income they may not even waste their time.

[stomper12000]

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