Let's talk Interest

Originally Posted by dashboy

PJT04,
where did you find Mr. Griffin's quote? I have been looking for that I swear!! I had previously read it but could not remember where! Dam you are good Man!!

dashboy~

TRY THIS LINK. IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THERE.
http://www.freedom-force.org/freedom...eaction=issues

[dashboy]

Thanks PJT04!


dashboy~

[dashboy]

Caveman,
here is a bit of info for you should you really believe it is ok to charge your brother interest. Take it or leave it as you will.

Usury in English:

From the Latin usuria means demanding in return for a loan a greater amount than was borrowed.

Interest:

From the Latin interess it is a legal term for usury when it is sanctioned by law or made lawful by government decree.

Usury in Hebrew:

Nashak means to strike with a sting as a serpent, to oppress with interest on a loan.

Usury in Greek:

Tokos means to give birth or bring forth. Aristotle said that money was barren and gave birth to nothing.

Money in Hebrew:


Keceph means silver.

Money in Greek:

Arguros means shining or silver.

(1) Stranger in Hebrew

(Ger) sojourner

(a) a temporary inhabitant, a newcomer lacking inherited rights,
(b) of foreigners in Israel, though conceded rights.

(2) Stranger in Hebrew

(Nokriy) foreign, alien

(a) foreign,
(b) foreigner,
(c) foreign woman, harlot
(d) unknown, unfamiliar

The Law of Moses strictly prohibited usury

"If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury "(Exodus 22:25).

"Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase" (Lev. 25:37).

"Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury "(Deut. 23:19).

"He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved" (PS. 15:5).

Interest on loans is condemned in modern bibles!!

The fact of the moneychangers driving usury out of the dictionary presented a monumental problem for the modern "bible" translators:

New International Version


"If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest" (Exodus 22:25).

Revised Standard Version

"You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit "(Lev. 25:37).

Revised Standard Version

"You shall not lend upon interest to your brother, interest on money, interest on victuals, interest on anything that is lent for interest"(Deut. 23:19).

Revised Standard Version

"Who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved "(PS. 15:5).

The Revised Standard Version is the approved Roman Catholic translation.

Usury was condemned by the early Congregation and even the Council of Nicaea which was presided over by Pope Constantine issued a sanction against it:

"Finally there followed the ************ of twenty canons or rules of discipline:
(17) prohibition of usury among the clergy; " (First Council of Nicaea).


Hope this helps!

dashboy~

Originally Posted by Caveman

There is lots of stuff we hear all the time, that simply isn't true. An investment is something that puts money in your pocket. For you, your home is a place to live. For the lender, it's an investment.




You can start by learning how the system works, and then use it yourself. Head down to WalMart and get yourself a financial calculator for less than $30. It comes with a manual that will show you not only how the machine itself works, but how money works.

Anybody can create money out of thin air, just like the bankers. Here's a quick description of the process, from my own personal experience.

Found a property for sale, and negotiated a price of $22,500 to buy it. Negotiated to pay it off over 10 years at $200 a month. The seller accepted, but wanted a down payment to feel comfortable with the deal. I offered her $1,200 cash, not as a down payment but rather as prepaid payments (6 months worth), and told her I would have the money for her as soon as I found someone to buy it from me. She accepted.

I have since (that was 3 years ago) sold that property 4 times, taking a total of $16,500 in down payments, and $17,100 in monthly payments. I have paid out $7,200 in payments to the original seller, but none of that money was from my own pocket. The prepaid 6 months came from the down payment I accepted from the first buyer. My buyers payment is $475, and I take $200 of that and send it on to the original seller.

The "loan" I have from the original seller is at 0% interest. It is simply $22,500 paid $200 per month. It pays to learn negotiation techniques along with financial techniques.

The "loans" I make to my buyers are at 12.75% for 10 years. I've sold this place at several prices, the latest was $35,500. The price doesn't matter. The interest rate I charge doesn't matter. What matters is that the buyer feels like he can pay the monthly amount.

So far that little cheapy property has put $26,400 in my pocket in a bit over 3 years, and I never had to draw on any of "my" money. I've already made more on it that my original purchase price.

Is any of that evil, or a ripoff? No, it's not. I recently got a letter from the original seller (who gets paid early every month, without fail), thanking me for taking that dump off her hands so she could get on with her life, and telling me how grateful she is that she doesn't have to struggle to get her payments.

Each person who bought from me got a good deal. They went from being renters to being owners, which they see as a good thing. Without me providing financing for them, they would still be renters or living in their car.

Everybody wins. Everybody is happy, especially me since I learned to create money out of thin air.

There isn't a reason in the world that you can't do the same thing.

[Caveman]

"You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit "(Lev. 25:37).

I was a bit loose with my terms, by referring to "money". As you know, what we all think of as "money" these days is nothing but an illusion. That's why bankers can create it from nothing, and why anybody else can as well. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

I don't fear the wrath of god for making my way the best I know how, with what I have to work with. Illusion is all I have to work with, so that's all I can use.

I don't resent the grocer making a profit on me either. I have tried to grow my own food, and I'm grateful the grocer is there to take advantage of my incompetence.

How many people profess to have these biblical convictions and yet also have home and car loans? It's what you have to do, or walk, or live under a bridge. Is it the same people who make a promise to pay, and then search frantically for a method to break their promise?

[RickA]

I don't fear the wrath of god for making my way the best I know how, with what I have to work with. Illusion is all I have to work with, so that's all I can use.

Caveman. While the current money system is an illusion, the idea, that is all there is, is an illusion as well. You stated that you tried to grow your own food, tilling the ground is the starting place, expansion starts there.

[BassBoy]

Ummm, no offense everyone, but where are we going with this? I was hoping that the alleged theory of money creation was not going to be a topic of discussion, nor take over this thread.

To refresh everyone's memory, I was complaining about how a large portion interest is paid within the first years of a loan and almost no pronciple. I figured it out as the Rule of 78 (if my calculations were correct) and my opinions of how unjustififed and unfair I felt it was. That was my purpose for asking. Forgive me, but I think we drifted off topic.

[Caveman]

Originally Posted by RickA

Caveman. While the current money system is an illusion, the idea, that is all there is, is an illusion as well.

Absolutely, and thanks for bumping me that extra step, Rick. When I said I "created money", that was just a part of my illusion. A trick that I played on myself. I didn't bring anything into this world. I can't create anything that wasn't already here. I won't be taking anything from here when I leave. All of my ideas are just ways that I fool myself. The truth, of anything, comes from from outside of me.

One of the things that existed here when I rode up, was a money system. An illusion. Since I'm here, and want to survive, I try to learn the rules of the illusion and apply them to my illusionary benefit. As long as I can fool myself into thinking I'm getting ahead of the game, I'm happy. It's simply human nature, to want to believe in illusions.

Like the American Dream. Buy a house, it's the best investment you'll ever make. It sounds great. Everybody knows that it's the way to go. Ask anybody, and they'll tell you so. And it's an outright lie/illusion. It's cheaper to rent, as can be seen by all the people who lost their American Dream and are now renting. They can't afford an investment, but they can afford to rent.

You stated that you tried to grow your own food, tilling the ground is the starting place, expansion starts there.

Yes I agree. I have spent the last 3 years building up the soil in my garden plot. I've been adding vegetable waste, manure, straw, paper, and such as various garden books recommend. This last season the soil seemed like it was over fertilized. All leaf and no bloom, like banker's cotton. I can afford a bit more patience, as long as Albert's son stays in business making a profit on food.

[dashboy]

I can afford a bit more patience, as long as Albert's son stays in business making a profit on food.
Too Funny CaveMan!! I get your drift!!


dashboy~

[Caveman]

Originally Posted by BassBoy

Ummm, no offense everyone, but where are we going with this? I was hoping that the alleged theory of money creation was not going to be a topic of discussion, nor take over this thread.

To refresh everyone's memory, I was complaining about how a large portion interest is paid within the first years of a loan and almost no pronciple. I figured it out as the Rule of 78 (if my calculations were correct) and my opinions of how unjustififed and unfair I felt it was. That was my purpose for asking. Forgive me, but I think we drifted off topic.

Sorry if we seemed to drift. I posted to answer your question, but I guess I didn't do too good a job at it. I suggested you get a financial calculator and see how it all works.

Very simply, if a loan is not to a lender's advantage, he won't make the loan. It's up to the borrower to play or not, and it's a free choice. One can't, in good conscience, sign an agreement acknowledging he's read it and understands it, and then later cry ripoff. A deal is a deal.

In my opinion, your best course is to learn the system sufficiently well that you can pay the stinking thing off early, and then never get another loan.

Recently in my state they passed a predatory lending law. It sets maximum interest rates, limits late fees and origination fees, and some other things supposedly designed to protect the poor masses from the evil lenders that allow them to drive new cars and live in nice houses. I was surprised when I carefully read the new law and conformed my next loan to it just to be on the safe side even though I wasn't required to. The end result was that I was able to make more money under the new protection law than previously doing it my own way.

The state went on and on in the news about how this was going to stop all those evil lenders from taking advantage of the consumers. The reality is probably that the lenders themselves had a hand in drafting the legislation so they could make even more money.

Illusions, you gotta watch'em.

Originally Posted by Caveman

Anybody can create money out of thin air, just like the bankers. Here's a quick description of the process, from my own personal experience.

Found a property for sale, and negotiated a price of $22,500 to buy it. Negotiated to pay it off over 10 years at $200 a month. The seller accepted, but wanted a down payment to feel comfortable with the deal. I offered her $1,200 cash, not as a down payment but rather as prepaid payments (6 months worth), and told her I would have the money for her as soon as I found someone to buy it from me. She accepted.

WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS EITHER CALLED LEASE OPTIONS OR CONTRACT FOR DEED. I'VE DONE A FEW OF THESE BEFORE MYSELF. SOUNDS LIKE YOU WERE ABLE TO FIND A NICE MOTIVATED SELLER. MORE POWER TO YOU.

HOWEVER, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATING MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR. IT APPEARS YOUR ORIGINAL SELLER HAS SOMETHING OF VALUE (HOUSE)THAT SHE ALREADY PAID FOR. IN THIS CASE, SHE'S PROVIDING A REAL HARD MONEY LOAN.

THE "BEAUTY" OF THE BANKING CARTEL IS THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO MONETIZE FUTURE DEBT AND CALL IT A LOAN. THEY GET TO COLLECT HIGH INTEREST ON SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T YET EXIST.

I WISH WE ALL COULD OPERATE SOFT MONEY LIKE THE BANKS DO.