A question

#1 05-24-2004, 02:02 PM

Thanks in advance to all who read this post. As I've said in earlier posts, I'm new to all this, but reading a lot and trying to see just how everything works. But there is one issue which I'm having trouble understanding. That is the issue of banks creating money. I think that by this point I've read enought to get the general idea, but there are some details that are sketchy to me.

For example, let's say I take out a bank loan for $1000. I sign a promissory note, which the bank then deposits as an asset. The bank then hands me $1000 in FRNs. This is an equal exchange, right. OK, now let's say that I refuse to pay them one penny of that $1000 that they so called "loaned me." Does the bank actually break even on this deal? In other words, let's say that I paid the $1000 back a day later than I borrowed it, and didn't pay any interest (just payed the principle). Did the bank just make $1000?

There are two different texts I want to refer to, because they are the main source of my inquiry. The first is by Edward Griffin, and is very long, so I'll just post the link: http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/debtcancel.pdf

He describes (I think) that banks create money only temporarily, and when the loan is repaid the created money disappears. So then what happens if the loan is not repaid?

The second text is short, so I'll just paste it here. I found it in the downloads section of this website in the document, "Secrets of the legal industry" by Richard Cornforth.& He writes:

Commentary: Some Patriots have been lured into the argument: "They never loaned my anything!" in examination of mortgages. This argument is based on the incomplete observation that a promissory note is "given" to the bank or martgage company, then the mortgage company allegedly creates money and therefore has gotten something for nothing. OH YEAH? What happens when& a check written on the allegedly created money account is presented to the bank for payment? The bank must reduce its inventory of FRNs by enough to redeem the check-so the bank didn't get something for nothing after all. Proponents of this false theory maintain that the banks are still stealing because they get to buy mney from the Feds at the cost of printing the money. OH YEAH? Your investigation will show that member banks borrow FRNS from the Feds at the discount rate.

He then continues on. I in no way am asserting that anyone is right or wrong here. I'm just a newbie trying to get the facts straight. What is the truth? Please help. Thanks,

B

Jerseee · #2 05-24-2004, 03:42 PM

Brent,

I said it before, you are the orignial creditor.& Nothing can heppen until you start the process.& It is your signature that funds the loan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah banks borrow notes and all that jazz--but they can't do anything until you either fill out an application for a loan or deposit FRNs or some other instrument from another demand account.

A bank would not exist if it did not have customers right?& An application is also a instrument (commercial paper), promissory note, draft, etc...

Try not to confuse yourself and make it more complicated than it is or you'll be stuck in neutral.& This whole scheme is the only way to get you to give up your credit.& They make something that is worth nothing desirable to you when the fact is, they want what you have.& And the only way to get it without paying for it is to trick you, confuse you, steal from you, and charge you for the whole process that they created.

Here is an old&post that I did back in September 2003.& it is under the UCC forum of this site:

"I believe this is the appropriate forum to post this.

fellow redemptors have had lots of questions about BoEs and CPNs in other forums.& Well as we all know there is no money.& Those dollars in your pockets are CPNs basically.& that's it, they are just promises to pay.& A form for bankers and accountants to use to transfer digits from one column to another in their ledgers.& Here is a direct quote from the book "Modern Money Mechanics" that the IRS published years ago that is now out ot print...

"Money has been defined as the sum of transaction accounts in depository institutions, and currency and travelers checks in the hands of the public. Currency is something almost everyone uses every day. Therefore, when most people think of money, they think of currency. Contrary to this popular impression, however, transaction deposits are the most significant part of the money stock." "Since the most important component of money is transaction deposits, and since these deposits must be supported by reserves, the central bank's influence over money hinges on its control over the total amount of reserves and the conditions under which banks can obtain them."& pg. 14 Modern Money mechanics
This is all about the control of the deception folks!

If you look at your dollars you will see that they are negotiable instruments.& What are negotiable instruments?&

"Negotiable instruments can be defined as a signed writing that contains an unconditional promise or order to pay an exact sum of money on demand or at a specified future time to a specific person.& A negotiable instrument can function in two ways:& 1. as a substitute for money& 2. as an extension of credit."

The UCC defines what a negotiable instrument is as well (3-104(b)).

Now think about your exemption.& Your exemption is your credit.& Which is unlimited.& You can grant the use of your credit to anyone, any business or even any government entity.& It is YOUR credit since there is no lawful money.& Remember, congress can only coin money not print it!
They are printing money up and paying people with what comes off the presses that they use.& So in essence the government has an exemption as well and they use it everyday.& But if you or I printed our own dollars, you would be guilty of counterfeiting.& But my opinion is that the FED has a copyright on the form and the exact specifications of their federal reserve notes.& So they file a claim against you for violation of their copyright (IMHO).
Now what makes an instrument negotiable?

Well there are six elements that are needed to make it negotiable and they are: it must

1. be in writing
2. be signed by the maker or drawer
3. be an unconditional promise or order to pay
4. state a fixed amount of money
5. be payable on demand or at a definite time
6. be payable to order or to bearer, unless its a check

Anything can be a negotiable instrument as long as these guidelines are followed.& But the 5 common types are:

1. promissory notes
2. checks
3. cretificates of deposit (CDs)
4. drafts (Bills of Exchange - BoE)
5. Bonds

So now that you know the elements of a negotiable instrument, the public law that allows you to create a negotiable instrument and that you are the creditor--you can see the power that you have to create and eliminate debt.&

Whenever you use a BoE or CPN, you should have a presentment or bill attached to it.& This shows proof of the debt and authorizes your trustee to discharge the debt using your exemption and signature as consideration.& Remember, it was your signature that created the credit/debt obligation in the first place.

This is what I have learned in my studies and by questions that I have fielded to financial professionals that did not give me a straight answer but just smiled most of the time as a response."

Bird · #3 05-24-2004, 03:45 PM

brentmwatkins:

You may want to read some Federal Reserve publications.& Modern Money Mechanics is a great place to start.&

"Of course, they (the banks) do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts....Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions. But the deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the <A name="banking system">banking system</A>." Modern Money Mechanics, Page 6.

Have a look at the whole publication if you like in the following link.

http://www.eliminatecreditcarddebt.c...mechanics.html

#4 05-24-2004, 05:38 PM

Thanks guys. BTW, is it a good idea to get a notary to witness your signature on the CPN?

Jerseee · #5 05-24-2004, 05:47 PM

Brent,

Most definitely!!& Have a public official witness your signature and statement of facts!

Way to pull it together Brent!