bank sells car, bill for the balance?

[scottinalaska]

A friend of mine just gave back a Chevy Tahoe to the bank. Thus, his loan is now UNsecured. They just sent him this letter:

Dear Sucker,
We took possession of your 2005 Tahoe on December 15, 2005 due to the default under the terms of your promissory note and security agreement.
Denali Alaskan will sell the vehicle at a private sale sometime after Dec 29th 2005. The money we get after paying our costs will reduce the amount you owe. If the net is less than you owe you still owe the difference. If the net exceeds the amount you owe you will get that amount back unless we pay it to someone else.
You can still get the vehicle back by paying the balance in full.
You may get a written explanation by writing or calling and we will explain the charges.

It was signed in ink by "Rebecca", Loan Control Officer. No last name. Private sale? Whoo hoo? I wonder who gets to get a good deal, privately?
So, now Troy must respond, I feel. I told him to refuse to do business over the phone when they started calling one week after his November 15 payment was due, but he continued to argue on the phone and say, "Fine, take the car, I am not paying any more!"
Now he gets to try and correct this error!
Looking for some direction or insight here. I will actually be in the big city on the 27th, and could "serve" them with any insightful, stalling, discouraging letter they might need before the sale or have in their possession that would discourage future involvement in a perceived debt. Troy's intent is NOT to get back the car. He just wants to be washed of the debt.
So far, he has seen the red pill, but is inevitably going to start tasting it soon!
scottinalaska

Originally Posted by scottinalaska

A friend of mine just gave back a Chevy Tahoe to the bank. Thus, his loan is now UNsecured. They just sent him this letter:

Dear Sucker,
We took possession of your 2005 Tahoe on December 15, 2005 due to the default under the terms of your promissory note and security agreement.
Denali Alaskan will sell the vehicle at a private sale sometime after Dec 29th 2005. The money we get after paying our costs will reduce the amount you owe. If the net is less than you owe you still owe the difference. If the net exceeds the amount you owe you will get that amount back unless we pay it to someone else.
You can still get the vehicle back by paying the balance in full.
You may get a written explanation by writing or calling and we will explain the charges.

It was signed in ink by "Rebecca", Loan Control Officer. No last name. Private sale? Whoo hoo? I wonder who gets to get a good deal, privately?
So, now Troy must respond, I feel. I told him to refuse to do business over the phone when they started calling one week after his November 15 payment was due, but he continued to argue on the phone and say, "Fine, take the car, I am not paying any more!"
Now he gets to try and correct this error!
Looking for some direction or insight here. I will actually be in the big city on the 27th, and could "serve" them with any insightful, stalling, discouraging letter they might need before the sale or have in their possession that would discourage future involvement in a perceived debt. Troy's intent is NOT to get back the car. He just wants to be washed of the debt.
So far, he has seen the red pill, but is inevitably going to start tasting it soon!
scottinalaska

I really don't see any room for negotiation with the alleged debt collector. This person already admitted to the debt and returned the collateral.

[scottinalaska]

So he screwed up. Not once, but more!
But here he sits with a pending "bill" that he is learning exists only in minds of consenting parties(am I right here?).
Now, that the "debt" is unsecured debt, can he not go the route of requesting proof of damages, etc.? Can he not send in a final payment of 25 dollars attached with an affadavit stating that if they do not reject it and return it, they are accepting it all as indeed "payment in full" ?
Likely this eventually goes to a third party debt collector, doesn't it? Then it is a bit easier, according to my study, to tell that collector that he wasn't party to the original contract, so "prove up, or leave me alone."
Are we on the right track here? Should he just wait until the "bill" comes? I feel some kind of response is in order here. And just think, I'll keep us posted and none of us risks our own shirts!
Thanks PJT for jumping in.
scott

[masterduke]

Kitchie seems to have a good response to their demands for money by stating she needs to have proper validation, not verfication of this alleged debt presented. Not some jive arguements over the phone. Keep your friend off the phone, he sounds like a person that until recently, was fully immersed in the "american dream" of perputual debt with interest. And still feels obligated to be conversational with them, tell him to stop. Tell him the "american dream" is a lie and they are closing the trap on as many victims as they can. Next year "the fed" is already set to raise interest rates "by several points in the first quarter of next year" and the amendments to FDCPA that is being quietly pushed thru the "house" right now will make the squeeze, even more locktight for them, when that gets "signed into law". Sponsered by NARCA (debt attorneys are us) so they do not have to reply to request for verifiaction and no original paperwork needs to be presented, just have to say, "you owe" thats it. it is going to make it very difficult to fight 'em without a lawyer or exstensive experince in litigatin'
Is his wife flippin' out? It is good they have a friend such as yourself that can give them some support along the way. That is a rare gift, most people that are hung out to dry are too ashamed, prideful, fearful, or frozen, to let anybody know whats happening, which is another way the debt collectors win
Keep us all in little boxes, while they run their swords thru 'em.

[scottinalaska]

Thanks for the thoughts on this MD. I wish my wife had someone to talk to about this kind of stuff "her husband" is into. I suppose some folks were engrossed in the Bear's game Sunday and that will be the topic this week. They enjoy it and I don't hold it against them. But if we dare broach the subject of some of these threads that we have spent time not passively, but actively learning about, I don't think the conversation will be as lively!
I'll do my best to help Troy play the right cards and convince the collectors that there are easier fish to fry.
I'll look up some of Kitchie's stuff to get some fresh ideas too. In the meantime, let's all remember that we only get in the box that swords run through by our own choice. (I never thought of that analogy, MD)
scottinalaska

[masterduke]

Scott allot of this stuff is as scary and depressing as talking about the IRS and when you are in complete darkness/denial of the whole picture(everything is fine until you miss payments) it is a subject that people don't wanna talk about!
Sure, I would rather talk about the surf, church, the PBR, motorcycle roadracin', football, anything but this stuff. but it has become an intregal part of life in America (at least until your residence becomes a cardboard box under a freeway over pass) and knowing how to deal with these parasites is crucial now with computers probing every electronic orifice they can think of. And little computer weasals being encourged to promote more and more snooping. It is imperative that we learn how to counter these attacks with real strategys that work, not "pie in the sky" attempts, that will be shot down instantly. At least until it is learned how to be entered and heard, setting precedent, becoming case law.
Heck thats what they use to stick you, case law this, civil rule that, prima facie crap whatever. (sorry) There is allot to learn but look at the average bar member, they ain't no genuis' either....

[scottinalaska]

I am examining the letter that Troy received right now and believe it may simply be announcement that the bank is giving him. That being, "We are selling your car to a private party and you will be responsible for the remaining balance we have deemed you owe."
There is no demand for payment in this letter. It consists of the following:
"We took possesion(stole )"
"We will sell"
"You will owe"
"You can get the vehicle back by paying"
"If you want a written explanation of the amount due, call or write"(Oh, he did ask for that in his first month of "delinquency," but they chose to engage in a typical phone call to get permission to get the car instead of answering his letter).

Perhaps a simple letter stating that the previous correspondence was never answered as to the validity of the debt and this silence coupled with a new contract to pay yet more FRN's is fraudulent.
"Thus, I formerly object to you selling a vehicle that was purchased by my signature, stolen from me, resold without my consent, and then billing the supposed remaining balance to me. I cannot in good conscience recontract with you without full disclosure."
By placing that objection into the record before he gets his bill or even before the sale may be of some benefit. But it is likely of no interest to most debt collectors too. I don't think it would hurt.
Presently, I do not see any letter that could be composed to make them reluctant to sell the car and bill the remaining to Troy in hopes he'll just mail in the money. They are just doing their job, right?
thoughts here?
thanks,
scottinalaska

It is merely an offer to contract, which can be refused for cause timely. Registered mail only.

[scottinalaska]

Fellow generals of the paper soldiers:
Could this "refusal for cause" include that I expect some kind of response within a certain amount of time? Or that their selling of the car will be tacit agreement that the presumed debt has now discharged, thus counter-offering them with the opportunity to contract?

scottinalaska

[georgealexander]

'Refused for Cause'

Red ink

anything else may be construed as a 'new' or collateral PROCESS.

The Banksters will pick up on the 'new' PROCESS.

Just kill it. REGISTERED MAIL, Return Receipt - USE STAMPS, not postage meter from the private subcontractor. Do not even let them put a '$0.00 Postage Meter Strip' on it to 'show where it originated'.

Registered Mail is International Mail. The Postmaster General (real postmaster) is under treaty (law of the land) with the International Postal Union in Switzerland which recognizes the STAMPS......if something goes wrong (and it has for me) you can write to the Postmaster General......if no action, report him the the International Postal Union.

Rumor FYI: USPS the private contractor is a law enforcement subcontractor with the Executive branch.

George Alexander