Notorius default

[sadie]

jerseee



I guess I am not getting something here. What I have done so far is demand verification of the debt and made offer to pay upon verification. When they don't verify I record their default - notarized - with the county clerk which makes it a matter of public record - notorius.



You are actually asking for verification and submitting a good faith "payment" with your request.



Why would you "pay" a debt that hasn't been verified?

You are admitting you owe something by actually submitting "payment" are you not?

[seeker]

thanks to all, especially Jerseee -- I saw the other post too and thought, I am not the only one who is not quite straight on this!

ONe more question, does this process of CPNs direct the receiver to use your exemption? Isn't htis where some of the grey area comes in? Some people staunchly maintain there is no such account. I could certainly believe the shady dealing of the government and their cavalier attitude about only they being wise and worthy enough to employ these methods of law. But people are not as stupid as they'd like to believe, and with increased global communication, we get more learned every day -- thanks in no small part to forums like this with giving people such as Jerseee, Ice, Suis Juris and ever single member who reads and shares.

My education continues. Thanks~



Seeker

[Ice]

Sadie,



You are not submitting a "payment" with a CPN. It is only a "promise to pay upon verification". Any payment tendered that is refused is evidence that there is no valid claim against you -- they have denied the claim by their own hand.



Seeker,



There is no "account" with a CPN. It is only a promise to pay. You don't need an account of any kind to make a promise.



Ice

[juststartingout]

Okay, now I *think* some things are starting to make a little bit more sense.



<font color=red>ICE stated [/color]to Sadie: You are not submitting a "payment" with a CPN. It is only a "promise to pay upon verification".



I was understanding a promissory note as just that - a promise to pay and was wondering "how in the world can a promise to pay something be the same thing as paying it off and causing the account to be paid in full?" Because - you're promising to pay it, not *actually* paying it. So, if they validate the debt, then you have to actually fork over all the money right then and there or do are you able to make payment arrangements on the now *validated* debt?



<font color=indigo>Jersee stated[/color]: I do not promote the Redemption process not because it may or may not work. I do not promote it because if you get something wrong, any little thing wrong, you are up a creek



okay, now I'm confused even more... or maybe the answer is in the Citizenship section here and I haven't found it yet... but what is exactly is the "redemption" process versus other processes of freedom? Is the act of filing a UCC-1 needed for the redemption process? Is the act of filing a UCC-1 needed to ask a creditor to validate a debt and then offer a CPN along with the VOD request?

[Bird]

juststartingout:

"So, if they validate the debt, then you have to actually fork over all the money right then and there or do are you able to make payment arrangements on the now *validated* debt?"



If they verify they debt, then they alrealy have the note (your CPN) and the obligation is discharged. Remember that FRN's are promissory notes just like your CPN. If they ask you to "pay up" on your CPN, then by all means you should. However, I would tender another CPN instead of using FRN's. It is your decision to decide which type of promise to pay (promissory note) to tender. A promise to pay is a promise to pay is a promise to pay.

[rushpat]

Because - you're promising to pay it, not *actually* paying it. So, if they validate the debt, then you have to actually fork over all the money right then and there or do are you able to make payment arrangements on the now *validated* debt?

"Money" is gold and silver. Paper FRNs (sometimes mistakenly called dollars) are just more promises to pay. And they have backed out of that promise when the gold was confiscated in 1933. Later (around 1965), the last of the real money was taken when silver was no longer used in coins.



Unless you have gold and silver, you can't 'pay' anything.

[logos]

I think part of the reason newbie's have difficulty grasping the concept of CPN's being as good as FRN's to discharge debt is not so much intellectual in nature, but

instead stems from mental habit. From day one in this society we see FRN's being used as money, thus internalizing the notion that check's, money order's, and IOU's always resolve to FRN's. It is a difficult mental habit to break, even when we learn and understand the truth. I know it was for me, even though intellectually I understood the concepts from the start.



sadie:

Why would you "pay" a debt that hasn't been verified?

You are admitting you owe something by actually submitting "payment" are you not?

Another way of looking at this: the Validation of Debt (VOD) package--which includes a CPN--says (to use the words of another poster from a now defunct forum) in a nutshell:

"Here's the money. You can have it if you can verify the debt." You've met the other party halfway and placed the burden of proof (onus probandi) on them. The ball is now in their court.

[sadie]

jersee



Thanks for the "thesis" to seeker.

[juststartingout]

Thank you to everyone for taking time to rehash and go over and over... YK, for different ppl it takes explaining in different ways to grasp it. All our minds work differently. Thank you.



WIth that, I believe that I have grasped it and just have to step out in "good faith" and just "do it"!



My second question was about the UCC-1 and the VoD/CPN process. Is the UCC1 needed to be filed before one can do this process. Me thinks yes b/c HJR192 is the remedy and isn't HJR192 also what made the STRAWMAN so that would have to be remedied in order to use the remedy of HJG192... thinking 'out loud' there. But then I think no it doesn't b/c it's public law. Just don't want to step out and do something that's gonna get me in trouble.

[logos]

juststartingout:



The VOD basically being a "put up, or shut up!" demand doesn't require a UCC-1 to be filed. The UCC-1 has other uses and has nothing to do with it.



HJR192 did NOT create the STRAWMAN! That shadowy character was created by the Government upon it's receipt of the completed Application for Certificate of Live Birth. HJR192 and the STRAWMAN are independent of each other.