Notorius default

[juststartingout]

so the CPN has nothing to do w/ UCC1 also, right? Can I do CPN w/o having done UCC1 and Copyrighted my name? I ask b/c when I go to fill out the VoD package on this site it brings up things like EID Number,HHIA Number, & Published CN Year... I have no idea what that HHIA# is... and I *assume* those form fields would only be filled in if one had done the UCC1 Process.



Sorry about the mistake of the strawman statement... is HJR192 what started the whole birth certificate process? Where did that come from? was it before HJR192? It's been so lobg since I read that particular info hard to remember

[Ice]

You don't need any copyright or UCC stuff to request verification from a collector or tender a CPN.



I could write "IOU $20.00" on a scratch piece of paper, have my signature on it witnessed by a Notary and present that to you with a letter stating that if you can prove that I owe you $20.00 I will honor that IOU.



And that is basically what you are doing with any collector. This isn't difficult -- there are no "secret processes" that you need to do before hand. This is based on LAW... not "redemption". Don't get the two confused.



To answer some of your other questions: HHIA is "Hold Harmless and Indemnity Agreement". You don't need to worry about any of that stuff unless you have copyright of the tradename and will seek to protect it. Oh, those form fields are filled in if one has copyrighted the tradename... the UCC comes AFTER the copyright. But you do not need all of that to request verification of an alleged debt.

Ice and Jerseee,



Given that the VOD/CPN is grounded in case law, why do you both recommend arguing the fraud ab initio in the contract and not HJR 192 and the fact that the "debt" has been discharged via the CPN?



Is it a matter of tactics? If so, how?

it is far more difficult to get 'them" to recognize HJR 192 than to start yanking out the fraud ab initio plus, they can't use the CPN based upon HJR 192 unless there really is a debt owed (the way that doc is constructed). fraud = no contract = no debt.



jon

Okay, so it's a strategy issue. However, is it really any harder to get "them" to understand HJR 192 than to understand that no "money" was actually lent? Either way you're asking them to stretch their brains.



I'm getting more curious about using the approach that banks cannot lend credit. Seems to me that even unsophisticated jurors can understand the difference between credit and a "loan". For example, Sears and JC Penney provide credit, MBNA does not. And once they're shown the law or the bank's own charter prohibiting lending credit, they should get it.



Your thoughts?

[vanton57]

May I add a couple of comments although I am new to this forum.



As a public notary, the strengh in using the notarial protests as part of your process is in the fact that once the Certificate of Dishonor is issued by the notary, it is considered Primea Facie Evidence. The only way it will get thrown out is if it can be proved that the notary issued the certificate in conjunction of committing a crime. They have to attack the notary who is acting as your agent.



The public notary is your independent 3d party witness.



In this country, the only thing a notary can protest is foreign paper. (Foreign paper can be found when your name is in all caps (which is crossing an international line from corporate to private), mailing from one state to another as a couple of examples). You to to the notary and request a notarial protest providing to the notary all your documentation (Conditional Acceptance, Affidavit/Negative Averment). The notary's job is to send the documents again under the cover letter of a Notice of Dishonor to give the company an opportunity to reply (which also confirms what you have already told the notary). They will most likely not respond or "dishonor" the notary. The second notice goes out and the allotted days are allowed to pass. If the company still ignores the notary then the CD is issued. This is the proof in the pudding. You now have not just your word but you have the notary's word which is worth or equivalient to twice your word.



The notarial protest is a very powerful tool when understood and used correctly. Just remember that only foreign negotiable instruments can protested based on the UCC 3 - 505. I have excerpts from some of the law books and notary manuals dating back to late 1800s and early 1900s on my website www.notaryprotest.com which will provide much research and clarification as well as some of the old case law in the footnotes in some of these manuals.

Welcome Vanton!



Excellent comments and points of clarification. Plus, it's always good to hear it from someone who actually does this sort of thing.



I've bookmarked your website and will check it out when I have more time.



BTW, can you commment on what a "Prothonotary" is and what they do? In order to keep things organized around here, it would be best if you responded in this thread: http://www.suijuris.net/main/suijuri...howtopic=12170



Would you also look over this thread and post your comments to it?

http://www.suijuris.net/main/suijuri...howtopic=10873



Sorry to put you to work like this so soon.



Thanks in advance.



B.

[Jerseee]

Vanton57,



Welcome!!! Good to have one of the good guys join our site to assist other in understanding your role in our efforts.



You stated: "The public notary is your independent 3d party witness. "



I've been saying this all along. Actually, I've been stating that, "a notary is a disinterested third party witness."

[scottinalaska]

Indeed, Vanton 57, so glad you have made yourself known. Thanks for being bold and offering your 2+ cents worth!

Conveniently, when I mail my IRS correspondence, the mail clerk IS a free notary! I sure hope that doesn' t make her less of a notary.

scottinalaska

Originally Posted by vanton57

May I add a couple of comments although I am new to this forum.



As a public notary, the strengh in using the notarial protests as part of your process is in the fact that once the Certificate of Dishonor is issued by the notary, it is considered Primea Facie Evidence. The only way it will get thrown out is if it can be proved that the notary issued the certificate in conjunction of committing a crime. They have to attack the notary who is acting as your agent.



The public notary is your independent 3d party witness.



In this country, the only thing a notary can protest is foreign paper. (Foreign paper can be found when your name is in all caps (which is crossing an international line from corporate to private), mailing from one state to another as a couple of examples). You to to the notary and request a notarial protest providing to the notary all your documentation (Conditional Acceptance, Affidavit/Negative Averment). The notary's job is to send the documents again under the cover letter of a Notice of Dishonor to give the company an opportunity to reply (which also confirms what you have already told the notary). They will most likely not respond or "dishonor" the notary. The second notice goes out and the allotted days are allowed to pass. If the company still ignores the notary then the CD is issued. This is the proof in the pudding. You now have not just your word but you have the notary's word which is worth or equivalient to twice your word.



The notarial protest is a very powerful tool when understood and used correctly. Just remember that only foreign negotiable instruments can protested based on the UCC 3 - 505. I have excerpts from some of the law books and notary manuals dating back to late 1800s and early 1900s on my website www.notaryprotest.com which will provide much research and clarification as well as some of the old case law in the footnotes in some of these manuals.

IS ALL THIS BASED ON THE REDEMPTION/UCC PROCESS?



WHAT KIND OF SUCCESS HAVE YOU HAD WITH THIS?