New credit card response document

Originally Posted by rawgoatsmilk

Thanks for your responses Henry. I think you've been very helpful to wakeup-ees, like myself, and others alike on this site. I showed my girlfriend this forum (to give her some hope on her credit card debt) and she actually thought that was you in the picture! Anyway, if you still feel like responding, my last question would be, is there somewhere I could find, perhaps in published-book format HOW to get out of paying credit card debt, given that you've responded, 'yes' it is possible, and 'yes' it has been done before.

Raw,

You have the wrong paradigm. Your mindset legitimizes that there IS a debt, when even YOU cannot prove that there is a debt. You can only agree with them, making their job easier.

Realize there is no debt, realize that you cannot ever pay a debt, and you will be free.

rawgoatsmilk posted:

my last question would be, is there somewhere I could find, perhaps in published-book format HOW to get out of paying credit card debt, given that you've responded, 'yes' it is possible, and 'yes' it has been done before.

Remember that it is always up to the Plaintiff (the accuser) to prove that you really owe a debt. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If you apply yourself, you may learn how to legally insist that the accuser prove their case against you. Many times they fall short of their burden of proof, and then they may lose the case.

I don't believe that there is any legitimate book that teaches any fool-proof process to get out of paying your debts.

There are some excellent instructional materials about how to learn the basics of the legal system, and how to represent yourself in court without hiring an attorney. I liked the materials offered at:

www.jurisdictionary.com

But I would not trust any of the so-called Debt Elimination companies. They are just looking to make money off of people who have too much credit card debt. They will charge you $2,000 - $5,000 for their materials, and then maybe even guide you through a process of disputing the debt using some pre-prepared letters they are selling, but this will usually just get you sued.

Once you are sued, the typical DE companies will leave you flat, telling you that their fee did not cover legal representation - or charge you another several thousand dollars to represent you in court with one of thier collaborating attorneys.

You need to understand what constitutes proof that you owe a debt, and then make your accuser provide that proof.

Verification of Debt is a place to start. Look at the VOD materials here, and ask your accuser to verify the debt they say you owe.

My 2 cent's worth = it would be far wiser to avoid running up credit card debt in the first place. Do not spend money that you do not have.

The CC Companies just love the people who run up debt and then take years to pay it off, paying them enormous amounts of interest... or who take out a loan on their real estate to pay off unsecured credit card debts. It is a huge industry making high interest on money they have created out of thin air. Don't fall for the bait. Take all that junk mail tempting you to go into debt and throw it all in the trash.

[dawgwise]

Henry Franklin and Heidi both make very good points.
Ahh, to pay debt with debt is a very difficult thing to do if not impossible. To discharge a debt is another story.

I remember the movie "City Slickers" and the trail boss said there is one thing in life. I now know the one thing that applies to everything in my life -
I always ask myself, "Who am I in relationship to __insert noun here." We must always know who we are.

Take your time Raw and learn before you leap. Get your goats in a row before you milk them.

Too many people do things backasswards and run afowl.
The dog lives in the "here and now," not the past or the future and that is good advise when dealing with banks, government and others of that milk, err...I mean ilk.

[rawgoatsmilk]

'Realize that there is no debt and you will be free'. What are you, some kind of zen master? Henry, of course I realize there is no debt! It would be pretty unscrupulous of me to come on this site asking for a way to get out of paying a debt I actually owe!

As I quoted in my excerpt, I know I don't owe anything, I just don't know how to prove it! I thought that was what this site would help me do! Don't get me wrong, I like this site very much, because it gives me some hope!

I read some of the VOD material, but I find it quite daunting. I just opened a web page today on the UCC, and another on (Canadian) Bills of Exchange. I find these quite daunting too!

Nevertheless, I thank you for your patience and your understanding and your willingness to help me out!

Originally Posted by rawgoatsmilk

As I quoted in my excerpt, I know I don't owe anything, I just don't know how to prove it! I thought that was what this site would help me do! Don't get me wrong, I like this site very much, because it gives me some hope!

And you believe the burden of proof rests upon your shoulders to prove that there is no debt.

It does not.

It rests on the shoulders of the one making the claim that there IS a debt.

Look in the downloads section for Jerseees VOD.

[dawgwise]

"As I quoted in my excerpt, I know I don't owe anything, I just don't know how to prove it!" by Rawgoatsmilk

I don't know how to prove a negative either. I cannot prove something doesn't exist.

So IF I were to approach from the above direction I wouldn't know what to do.

HOWEVER IF one were to approach from the direction to have someone else actually prove something does exist....ahhhh....that can be proven or disproven.

[rawgoatsmilk]

Yes. Thank you everyone. I definitely need to look into VODs. Especially since I live in Canada -- Jersee's VOD seems to cite a lot of american law.

[rawgoatsmilk]

There are some excellent instructional materials about how to learn the basics of the legal system, and how to represent yourself in court without hiring an attorney. I liked the materials offered at:

www.jurisdictionary.com

I guess you purchased the materials at that website. Would you care to share them with anyone? say, me, for instance. i find the cost for the 'whole set' -- about 200 dollars -- prohibitive. If you already had them, i thought i would ask if you could send them along. there is www.yousendit.com for relatively large files. thank you.

My email address, or, one of them, is paraonze@yahoo.com

Tony

I have a car and have been going through discovery in regards to them trying to repo the car. I have attempted to depose them,but the judge is saying it isnt' necessary. Today at court the debt collector acutally brought in the original note. However the note they brought in had things stamped on it that were not on the note when i originally signed it. Does anyone know how i should proceed. The judge didnt' grant summary judgement, but gave me an additonal 7 days to get an ammended affidavit in. I have also requested ,but the judge didnt think it was necessary that i they need to provide the general ledger, the contract betwen the attorney and the bank, and the banks charter. Does anyone have any ideas

[charlesa6]

Originally Posted by daniel1

I have a car and have been going through discovery in regards to them trying to repo the car. I have attempted to depose them,but the judge is saying it isnt' necessary. Today at court the debt collector acutally brought in the original note. However the note they brought in had things stamped on it that were not on the note when i originally signed it. Does anyone know how i should proceed. The judge didnt' grant summary judgement, but gave me an additonal 7 days to get an ammended affidavit in. I have also requested ,but the judge didnt think it was necessary that i they need to provide the general ledger, the contract betwen the attorney and the bank, and the banks charter. Does anyone have any ideas

Check the link for further details. http://www.suijuris.net/forum/banks-...card-debt.html