Certified Verification of Alleged Debt

[Jerseee]

Dashboy,



When I word my documents theyare different everytime because of each situation is unique. One way I word it is, "...I have enclosed a good faith payment in the amount of the alleged debt--this should satisfy your claim. However, my demand has yet to be satisfied. To avoid dishonor, certified verification is needed. If certified verification cannot be done--please return my tender."



how's that?



Faithchris,



I have a question, if you don't mind.....



Are you arguing or debating an issue?



I ask that because that could be your problem as to why you are not winning. Also, why not bring a notary to court with you to witness your signature on the CPN and satisfy the alleged debt right there in court? Let the judge break the law for a change.



just a thought

[Bird]

Ice:

<font size=1>"Ever try to view a copy of an original mortgage or CC application? Try to. Go ahead. Let us know how it turns out."[/color]



I believe I have. And It worked out great... I never heard from them again. Of course, that was just part of the strategy. And this was at the administrative level.



That's why one could ask them to produce the original in the early stages. This tactic can be integrated into one's method. Granted, demanding the contract is not a silver bullet by any means.



The reason I asked if you had an example where the court accepted a copy, was so that I could examine the court's position, as well as to see what steps the good guy had taken.

[Ice]

How old was the original that you viewed? The original is "verification" of a debt. How is it that it worked out "great"? Was it attacked for fraud?... or was some other method used?



Usually a delinquent mortgage is SOLD to a "debt-torney". The "debt-torney" cannot produce an original.



If anyone can name a case in which the original mortgage contract or an original application for a CC was actually produced in court... please inform us.



Personally, I know of NONE.



Ice

[wirlwind]

In one of the contracts that I "had" for an unsecured loan there was actually a section for things that could nullify a contract for them (the bank). One of the things under that section was not giving full disclosure (that would have been on our part). Well if that is good enough to nullify for them, why isn't it good enough to nullify for us? They didn't tell us that they weren't loaning us anything. In a contract what applies for one party applies for the other, and they put it right there in the contract. But somehow I think in a courtroom it would not matter. I'm afraid if I pointed it out, then that would be my way of validating the contract. I feel like I'm saying the contract doesn't exist, but there is a piece of paper that looks like a contract that has what looks like my and my husbands signatures on it, and I'm saying to verify it, but what I really want to say is this contract is null and void because you didn't give full disaclosure. They totally ignore that fact. It's like the elephant in the living rrom that noone will talk about.







Donna

[sadie]

Jerseee



Wow, thank you so much for the thumbs up!

Happy to share what little I know. Anxious to learn much more from you who are much more knowledgable.



Everyone,



Thank you all for sharing so much with this humble student.

[Jerseee]

Sadie--you're very welcome.



Donna,



You have every right to be apprenhensive about that situation. That is why I stress, "never argue". You see you are discussing the terms of the contract and not the debt itself. I would stop trying to catch them in their web and just keep demanding certification. Let them bring up whatever they want and then you counter.



I would not introduce any of that which you are talking about. As you can see, it is a trap and they are waiting for you to step into it. Very good critical reading Donna. Great Job. And kudos on your forecasting of events that could possibly occur if you argue about the terms of the contract.



Hey, why not just keep pounding away for certified verification and get some case law to support your position. ALso some case law that rebuts copies of documents being addmissable as evidence. Some court room procedures will help you too. That should keep the judge on the up and up.



And don't forget, if counsel is testifying to facts--OBJECT. Ice has posted the rules for objection in the downloads section.



Have fun

Hi, I don't argue anything and your welcome to ask me anything I surely don't mind. I guess in a way I may of been in dishonor but only by following the law in which there is no honor with the courts so I couldn't win. I am in honor now and followed all of Rice's work which none has worked for me to date and other methods and some on this web site which I love. I just have to find something to work for me here in PA where there is no law in the courts for people whom are not lawyers. I will have to say however I don't ever want to go into court again I am not good at it I shake like a leaf. Thanks faithchris

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Dashboy,



When I word my documents theyare different everytime because of each situation is unique. One way I word it is, "...I have enclosed a good faith payment in the amount of the alleged debt--this should satisfy your claim. However, my demand has yet to be satisfied. To avoid dishonor, certified verification is needed. If certified verification cannot be done--please return my tender."



how's that?



Faithchris,



I have a question, if you don't mind.....



Are you arguing or debating an issue?



I ask that because that could be your problem as to why you are not winning. Also, why not bring a notary to court with you to witness your signature on the CPN and satisfy the alleged debt right there in court? Let the judge break the law for a change.



just a thought

[Jerseee]

faithchris,



Thanks for entertaining my question.



I can certainly understand the apprehension about going to court. However, I have faith in you--oddly enough (faithchris--go figure). The faith I have in you is that you have the ability to stand up for yourself and try. This effort alone demands applause. I highly respect that (for what ever my respect is worth).



I think that if you kept pluggin away at this--the dam will crack. I do not have first hand knowledge of your situation but I do know that freedom is not free and common sense is not common.



I would be more than honored to brainstorm with you on this forum. If you don't mind--let's shoot some ideas back and forth and see what you can come up with. Is this okay with you?



If so, I can assure you that others on this forum will jump in and aide you--since your fight is somewhat our fight. Just start a new thread in the appropriate forum and lets try--okay?

Originally Posted by faithchris

Hi, I don't argue anything and your welcome to ask me anything I surely don't mind. I guess in a way I may of been in dishonor but only by following the law in which there is no honor with the courts so I couldn't win. I am in honor now and followed all of Rice's work which none has worked for me to date and other methods and some on this web site which I love. I just have to find something to work for me here in PA where there is no law in the courts for people whom are not lawyers. I will have to say however I don't ever want to go into court again I am not good at it I shake like a leaf. Thanks faithchris

Shaking like a leaf is not the problem. Doing time when you were wrongfully convicted is the problem. I am just as nervous as you are in fighting the beast, but I truly believe that you can win, and I can win. FACT: You can NOT win if you don't try.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by faithchris

I don't ever want to go into court again I am not good at it I shake like a leaf.

Dude..



I've been to court dozens of times... and I still shake like a leaf... lol... because I am very uncomfortable with public speaking. Being "good at going to court" and "shaking" are mutually exclusive items however...



I could be Johnny Cochrane.. and I would still shake like a leave.. and just because I found the ability to control my shaking.... doesn't necessarily make me good at law.



C'mon... if you're not scared... you just don't get it !



Being a student of prophecy, I truely believe when we go to court, we face the devil himself or one of his personally coached minions.



You would be a fool NOT to be scared !



I completely understand you reluctance to go near the place... but that is where the battlefield is ! Had I been on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, I would have been shaking my ass off there as well !!



Everytime I go to court, I learn a little more, become a little more comfortable, a bit more aware, a little bit stronger and hopefully provide a positive example to others. Adversity builds character after all....



It is SCAREY to go to court.. but it is scarier still, to consider what we, and our children, will face, if we don't.



For HIS Glory,

Akira