Need analysis of information

This is directed to the group as a whole, but specifically to David Merrill, Ice, Weish, Iamfreeru2, Idknow, and any others that may have valuable input. This is not being submitted for the purpose of cynical debate, but potentially as useful to the entire group.

Please pay attention to the last sentence.

"TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 11 > § 1433 Prev | Next

§ 1433. Exemption from taxation; obligations acceptable as credit on debt of home owner


Release date: 2005-07-21

Any and all notes, debentures, bonds, and other such obligations issued by any bank, and consolidated Federal Home Loan Bank bonds and debentures, shall be exempt both as to principal and interest from all taxation (except surtaxes, estate, inheritance, and gift taxes) now or hereafter imposed by the United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority. The bank, including its franchise, its capital, reserves, and surplus, its advances, and its income, shall be exempt from all taxation now or hereafter imposed by the United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority; except that in [1] any real property of the bank shall be subject to State, Territorial, county, municipal, or local taxation to the same extent according to its value as other real property is taxed. The notes, debentures, and bonds issued by any bank, with unearned coupons attached, shall be accepted at par by such bank in payment of or as a credit against the obligation of any home-owner debtor of such bank. "

Jerry.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

This is directed to the group as a whole, but specifically to David Merrill,
Ice, Weish, Iamfreeru2, Idknow, and any others that may have valuable input.
This is not being submitted for the purpose of cynical debate, but potentially
as useful to the entire group.

Please pay attention to the last sentence.

"TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 11 > § 1433 Prev | Next

§ 1433. Exemption from taxation; obligations acceptable as credit on debt of home owner


Release date: 2005-07-21 [reformmated by idknow for clarity]

Any and all
- [what property] notes, debentures, bonds, and other such obligations [negotiable instruments]
issued by any bank, and consolidated Federal Home Loan Bank bonds and debentures,

- [what act upon property] shall be exempt both as to principal and interest from all taxation
(except surtaxes, estate, inheritance, and gift taxes)

- [by who] now or hereafter imposed by
the United States,
by any Territory,
dependency,
or possession thereof,
or by any State,
county,
municipality,
or local taxing authority.

[who] The bank, including its franchise, its capital, reserves, and surplus, its advances, and its income [profit],
[what] shall be exempt from all taxation
[when] now or hereafter
[by whom] imposed by the United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority;

except that in [1] any real property [land? or is this ``real estate''? meaning perhaps improvements?]
of the bank shall be subject to State, Territorial, county, municipal, or local taxation to the same extent according to its value as other real property [owned by same bank, franchise, etc]
is taxed.

The notes, debentures, and bonds issued by any bank, with unearned coupons attached,
shall be accepted at par [parity, 1 to 1 value]
by such bank in payment of or as a credit against the obligation of any home-owner debtor of such bank."

Jerry.

Hey Jerry!

A couple of things jump at me:

- definition of word `State' as used in the act?
- since national sovereigns are already exempt from state and federal taxation, who is the intended audience of this act?
- definition of "coupons" in final sentence?
- definition of ``un-earned coupons'' as comppound word?

I hope my italics are visible, if not lemme know, i'll adjust.

You caught the point. What are 'unearned coupons'? I cannot find a definition anywhere for such a critter. What do you suppose it may suggest?

I also see where the 'home-owner' can have his/her account adjusted decreased by the amount of the 'Note'.
what gives there?

Jerry.

Coupon
The contractual interest obligation a bond or debenture issuer covenants to pay to its debtholders.

Coupon bond
A bond featuring coupons that must be presented to the issuer in order to receive interest payments.

Coupon-equivalent rate
See: Equivalent bond yield

Coupon equivalent yield
True interest cost expressed on the basis of a 365-day year.

Coupon pass
Canvassing by the desk of primary dealers to determine the inventory and maturities of their Treasury securities. The desk then decides whether to buy or sell certain issues (coupons) in order to add or withdraw reserves.

Coupon payments
A bond's interest payments.

Coupon rate
In bonds, notes, or other fixed income securities, the stated percentage rate of interest, usually paid twice a year.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

You caught the point. What are 'unearned coupons'? I cannot find a definition anywhere for such a critter. What do you suppose it may suggest?

I also see where the 'home-owner' can have his/her account adjusted decreased by the amount of the 'Note'.
what gives there?

Jerry.

Well, according to my reformat above, `un-earned coupons' are associated with "notes, debentures and bonds issued by a bank"

So determine the meaning of those three: notes, afaik, are negotiable instruments;

I dont have a clear understanding of bonds nor or debentures.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

Coupon
The contractual interest obligation a bond or debenture issuer covenants to pay to its debtholders.

Coupon bond
A bond featuring coupons that must be presented to the issuer in order to receive interest payments.

Coupon-equivalent rate
See: Equivalent bond yield

Coupon equivalent yield
True interest cost expressed on the basis of a 365-day year.

Coupon pass
Canvassing by the desk of primary dealers to determine the inventory and maturities of their Treasury securities. The desk then decides whether to buy or sell certain issues (coupons) in order to add or withdraw reserves.

Coupon payments
A bond's interest payments.

Coupon rate
In bonds, notes, or other fixed income securities, the stated percentage rate of interest, usually paid twice a year.

inferred from "coupon bond" above, I read "coupon" to be a stamp representing an acknowledge of some act or payment?

do you remember the coupons that used to be packaged with some kinds of
cigarette packages in the 70s? and you'd affix them to a booklet and when you filled a booklet
you browse a catalog for something to buy at discount?

Coupon, stamp.

Understood Idknow.. what is not understood is this:

where do the stamps/coupons originate?
how are they originated?
which in turn would answer --
how does the homeowner get hold of thos coupons? and if he/she did get hold of the coupons, how would he/she be able to use them to offset the original obligation?

It would be nice to think that this language used here is their method of acknowledging the affidavit of that attorney up in Ohio (can't remember his name offhand). What I mean is this... this citation mentions notes issued by the bank along with the mention of the coupons.. are these notes the same as the note that we as debtors signed to generate the funding? If it is, then this becomes crystal clear and in perfect harmony with the many sources that iterated on the money mechanics issue.

Jerry.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

Understood Idknow.. what is not understood is this:

where do the stamps/coupons originate?
how are they originated?
which in turn would answer --
how does the homeowner get hold of thos coupons? and if he/she did get hold of the coupons, how would he/she be able to use them to offset the original obligation?

It would be nice to think that this language used here is their method of acknowledging the affidavit of that attorney up in Ohio (can't remember his name offhand). What I mean is this... this citation mentions notes issued by the bank along with the mention of the coupons.. are these notes the same as the note that we as debtors signed to generate the funding? If it is, then this becomes crystal clear and in perfect harmony with the many sources that iterated on the money mechanics issue.

Jerry.

udder significant defines we need:

Debenture: a corporate bond without collateral; its value based on the reputation and financial strength of the issuer!!! from financial dictionary


From American Heritage Dict.
Debenture: 1. a certificate or voucher acknowledging a debt;

2. an un-secured bond by a civil or governmental corporation or agency and [b]backed only by the credit standing of the issuer;

3. a customhouse certificate providing for the payment of a drawback.

http://www.EagleTraders.com/neg_fina...re_tprog_o.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debenture

"a debenture is any debt or loan that is backed only by the borrower's word"

"a long-term debt instrument that is not secured by a sepcific asset. In the event of default, the holder does not have a claim against any specific asset(s) of the issuing firm."

By the way, in .uk context, a debenture *IS* secured by assets! go figer!!!

info from first page of google with "+dictionary +debenture".

debenture: unsecured loan or, possibly even, gift.

[rottweiler]

Originally Posted by idknow

Hey Jerry!

A couple of things jump at me:

- definition of word `State' as used in the act?
- since national sovereigns are already exempt from state and federal taxation, who is the intended audience of this act?
- definition of "coupons" in final sentence?
- definition of ``un-earned coupons'' as comppound word?

I hope my italics are visible, if not lemme know, i'll adjust.

"State" is a jurisdiction. Any jurisdiction that has taxing authority is a STATE.
The meaning of "State" in this statute refers to one of the 50 States. Then they go on to really spell it out for us by listing all taxing jurisdictions:
"United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority."

[rottweiler]

This statute appears to mean that any debt obligation issued by any bank can offset a debt to the bank of issue for a home loan and that issue is not taxable by any taxing authority. Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

This is directed to the group as a whole, but specifically to David Merrill, Ice, Weish, Iamfreeru2, Idknow, and any others that may have valuable input. This is not being submitted for the purpose of cynical debate, but potentially as useful to the entire group.

Please pay attention to the last sentence.

"TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 11 > § 1433 Prev | Next

§ 1433. Exemption from taxation; obligations acceptable as credit on debt of home owner


Release date: 2005-07-21

Any and all notes, debentures, bonds, and other such obligations issued by any bank, and consolidated Federal Home Loan Bank bonds and debentures, shall be exempt both as to principal and interest from all taxation (except surtaxes, estate, inheritance, and gift taxes) now or hereafter imposed by the United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority. The bank, including its franchise, its capital, reserves, and surplus, its advances, and its income, shall be exempt from all taxation now or hereafter imposed by the United States, by any Territory, dependency, or possession thereof, or by any State, county, municipality, or local taxing authority; except that in [1] any real property of the bank shall be subject to State, Territorial, county, municipal, or local taxation to the same extent according to its value as other real property is taxed. The notes, debentures, and bonds issued by any bank, with unearned coupons attached, shall be accepted at par by such bank in payment of or as a credit against the obligation of any home-owner debtor of such bank. "

Jerry.