Myths About the Patriot Act and SSNs

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Myth 1: The PATRIOT Act prohibits banks from opening accounts for people without a Social Security
Number (SSN).
Truth: Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act sets inimum standards for the type of information financial institutions must collect from their customers – but it does not prohibit banks from serving undocumented
immigrants or others without an SSN. Under the Act, banks and credit unions must collect, at a minimum, a customer’s name, birth date, address, and identification number. For U.S. citizens, the identification number must be an SSN or other taxpayer ID number. From non-U.S. citizens, a bank may accept an SSN, individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN), or the number from: a foreign passport, consular ID card (such as the Mexican matrícula consular) or other U.S. or foreign government-issued document that includes the person’s photograph or similar safeguard and nationality or residence. Some banks have chosen to go beyond the Act’s minimum guidelines and require an SSN, but others accept a range of documents.

See: 3 Myths About Immigrant's Banking Rights

[David Merrill]

From the Need to open an bank account http://www.suijuris.net/forum/banks-...k-account.html thread:

Originally Posted by Judge Roy Bean

There's no way around the identifiation/ssn issue any more. The Patriot Act has effectively closed the loopholes.

Be careful - falsifying documents submitted to a financial institution is a felony.

This is where one should get a look into the legaleze;

(3) (a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection (3), on and after October 1, 2000, an application for a driver's or minor driver's license shall include the applicant's social security number, which shall remain confidential and shall not be placed on the applicant's driver's or minor driver's license unless such applicant has waived such confidentiality; except that such confidentiality shall not extend to the state child support enforcement agency, the department, or a court of competent jurisdiction when requesting information in the course of activities authorized under article 13 of title 26, C.R.S.,or article 14 of title 14, C.R.S. If the applicant does not have a social security number, the applicant shall submit a sworn statement, together with the application, stating that the applicant does not have a social security number. The license issued as a result of said application may, at the applicant's option, contain an identification number, which shall be the applicant's social security number.

So you can read this about ten times and get about ten different confusing meanings until you understand that having or not having a SSN is completely up to you. Therefore one can make it a private policy up and until it discriminates against you. And that would of course be up to an attorney in a black robe.

My opinion on the matter is that you must have a SSN to open a bank account. The basis for stabilizing the US dollar foreign and domestic was replaced (gold by SDRs) in the late '70s; the secret Jamaica Rambouillet Accord. This is a fictional currency basket of which the US is a trendsetter for exemplary Social Security Administration compliance and standards. For crying out loud! - Franklin D. Roosevelt was an American President!

http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images.../SeizeGold.jpg
From December 1975 State Department Bulletin

So if you want to get down to the nuts and bolts since the Fed is a private bank any daughter banks insured by the FDIC are within right to demand SSN. Like with insurance companies insisting if you loan your car out, only to licensed drivers.

In the paraphrasing above in the opening post here the implied notion is SSN is required because you need to have an SSN for about any one of those valid picture IDs. In the State of Colorado corporate bylaws CRS, it is clear that nobody is required to carry a picture ID, it is always the responsibility of the acceptor if for instance a fraud happens that is hostile or causes injury. So why would any bank risk it?

As for the Patriot Act I have only read the Extraterritorial Jurisdiction section because that is all that pertains to me and my BOE. We are fine with it being within the law. However for the citizens of the US (the enemy by the TWEA) then of course there are different stipulations. I do not recognize any of the verbiage above so I think you are talking about application to citizens of the US. For the rest of us check out the link at the top of this post.

Instead of just taking fulltitle's word for it you should read the Act in question for yourself:

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdqu...d107:H.R.3162:


Regards,

David Merrill.

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

My opinion on the matter is that you must have a SSN to open a bank account.

U.S. Treasury regulations are clear. They say pretty much "keep separate records and advise the Treasurer of those who dont have SSNs". Makes sense why they make the ITIN available after the fact (probably because thats the resulting charter number for the trust created). Likewise, they are starting to issue TINs via the DMV in some States.

Keep in mind I was quoting that particular resource.

To my knowledge, U.S. Treasury regulatins require financial institutions to *request* the likes of a social security number and has similar reporting requirements in the event that no SSN is obtained (see at 31 CFR § 103.21).

(b) STUDY AND REPORT REQUIRED- Within 6 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary, in consultation with the Federal functional regulators (as defined in section 509 of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act) and other appropriate Government agencies, shall submit a report to the Congress containing recommendations for--

(1) determining the most timely and effective way to require foreign nationals to provide domestic financial institutions and agencies with appropriate and accurate information, comparable to that which is required of United States nationals, concerning the identity, address, and other related information about such foreign nationals necessary to enable such institutions and agencies to comply with the requirements of this section;

(2) requiring foreign nationals to apply for and obtain, before opening an account with a domestic financial institution, an identification number which would function similarly to a Social Security number or tax identification number; and

(3) establishing a system for domestic financial institutions and agencies to review information maintained by relevant Government agencies for purposes of verifying the identities of foreign nationals seeking to open accounts at those institutions and agencies.

Also, dont forget that a U.S. bank likely has its own EIN/TIN *already*.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by fulltitle

WITHOUT PREJUDICE


Treasury Regulations are clear. They say pretty much "keep separate records and advise the Treasurer of those who dont have SSNs". Makes sense why they make the ITIN available after the fact (probably because thats the resulting charter number for the trust created). Likewise, they are starting to issue TINs via the DMV in some States.

In the State of Colorado corporation the DMV is the Department of Revenue. So it is intimately tied to the issuance of Federal Reserve Notes. To understand why I would offer such an opinion, one must see the enacting clause is replaced by a Safety Clause.

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_d...2005a/sl_5.htm
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/court/...on-1871-a.html

I was speaking practically. The people at the driver license place (DoR) don't even know that the SSN is not a requirement for a driver license. The State of Colorado is a private corporation with the option of granting the privilege or not.

Section 18. Enacting clause. The style of the laws of this state shall be: "Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado".

Regards,

David Merrill.

P.S. Yes! There it is...

(2) requiring foreign nationals to apply for and obtain, before opening an account with a domestic [District United States] financial institution, an identification number which would function similarly to a Social Security number or tax identification number; and... [bracketed highlight added]

One has to readily distinguish between an American national and a US national. An American national, and any man or woman in true name is seen as a "foreign national" with respect to the United States corporation.

Perhaps we could ask Judge Roy Bean how much immunity does signing Without Prejudice grant? I agree that you have the right to enter into a banking contract without a SSN (without subjecting yourself as chattel against the issuance of FRNs) and simply signing Without Prejudice works fine in theory. But in practical application, the bank attorney just instructs the teller or account setter upper (I forgot what they are called) to reject any such signatures on the Signature Cards - tell them "We are sorry but you cannot sign that way." That is where internal private policy prevails and for the protection of insurance capture on the FRNs, they would side to only handling good chattels' money.

P.P.S.

U.S. Treasury regulations are clear. They say pretty much "keep separate records and advise the Treasurer of those who dont have SSNs".

That is a fascinating lead. But it came a little out of the blue. I want to know what document you are quoting there.