Cites - Case Law Prohibitions on Banking

[wirlwind]

They do not have anything, unless you allow them to enter a copy of the note as evidence.



SJ,



What if the judge allows them to endter it into evidence? It has been said here on SJ that some judges are allowing copies to be submitted as evidence.



Also, if you are not properly served- the papers given to you personally- can you ignore a note that is left on your front door saying that there are legal papers that you need to pick up at the Sherriff'a office? I seem to remember that they only have to ATTEMPT to serve you.



Any ideas?

based upon what i've read here you will need to claim the copy appears to be a very clever forgery. that should force the production (or incapcity to produce) the UNaltered original. ice made some really great points about that in networth2's threads...



jon

[Jerseee]

Also,



Don't just take Ice's word for it. Go look it up! Look in the FRE (annotated) on this site provided by SJ. Look up the "best evidence" rule--you will see case law on this issue and you might be amazed at what you find. This is what Ice is trying to push upon us.

[sadie]

SJ



The court does not ask if this is your signature. They only ask if you had a credit card and used it - End Discussion and then they grant the summary judgment.



Ice



You mentioned something about not getting into the theory of the bank didn't lend money and instead going after the fraud and breach of contract.



What is the breach of contract if not the fact that they don't lend money? If we don't prove that then how have they breached the contract?



They claim we breached the contract by not paying.

That is all the judge wants.



Understanding what is happening and following through with paperwork is one thing, but attemting to defend yourself in court is totally different.



When the atty and judge gang up on you and start doing their dance of double talk it's hard to follow. When you try to object the judge tells you it's not your turn and you again object and they ignore you and keep going.



You try to follow what they are doing and forget where and what you were objecting to. I object to the whole idea of having to go to court to defend myself but that doesn't change it.



So now you have summary jugment. Then have to file motion to vacate, then have to appeal, writs of mandamus, appeal to supreme court, violation of constitution, sovreignty etc. etc.



The SCUMSUCKER'S tricks are to wear you out so you give up. I already have 2 lawsuits (have 19 accounts I will never survive)



Sorry, feeling kind of beat up by BB right now.



What are your thoughts on this approach to a credit card suit?



Ignore the summons, let them get the summary judgment. the offer the CPN to discharge the judgment, would that work?



As you both are very much more versed in all of this I appreciate your input.



This site is awesome, I wish I had found it much sooner.



Thanks to all.

SADIE,

WE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DEMAND PROOF THAT A CONTRACT EXISTS AND THAT IT HASN'T BEEN BREACHED BY THE BANK/CREDITOR. THE CREDITOR/BANK WILL MOST LIKELY NEVER BE ABLE TO SHOW THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN ALTERED OR FORGED.



THIS IS WHERE THE FRAUD ASPECT COMES IN. THEY ARE COMMITING FRAUD BY FORGING THE CONTRACT AND "LENDING" YOU BOGUS CREDIT.

[seeker]

HOW to demand the original as proof -- HOW to execute the breach of Contract defense -- the court system through the judge (one of the good old boys along with the plaintiff attorney) are used to accepting the "verification" of an affidavit which states NOTHING -- and COPIES of monthly statements with your name on them, as all the PROOF they need to slam dunk you into summary judgment. NOW, as I read it, summary judgment is only possible if there are no FACTS to judge -- If you have offered no defense or allowed them to perpetrate the fraud upon you -- So if we have raised the question of jurisdiction, the right of the plaintiff to file suit, the ability of the defendant to be sued, the issue of the National Banking Act (lending credit), a private administrative remedy (dishonor through silence hence acquiescence of YOUR new contract), no refuted statements of accounts, invoices that they have not paid to YOU (remember your contract, bill them), your negotiable instrument that was not returned... make the judge take written judicial notice of these items and make a written statement if it is not allowed or recognized. After all, THAT IS written in the code as allowable in contrast to the lending of credit fraud they participated in. I'd like to explore this "fraud" aspect further ... Anyone with knowledge and cases?

[sadie]

Yes, I understand all that. The problem is trying to get it to fly in the courts.



The attys. make up fraudulent affidavits and bring in cases to support that they only need to give copies of statements as verification and case law as I posted elsewhere of other people trying to do the same thing where the judges claim it is all frivolous gobbledygook.

Wells Fargo v. Funk



So if you are trying to work and the law library closes at 5pm and the statutes and annotated on the internet for my state are only available to lawyers with ABA membership for a stiff fee it makes it very hard to put a case together against them only to have the judges totally ignore anything including sworn notarized correspondence and affidavits that are already publically recorded with the county clerk.



If people are really fighting this and winning in court then why do we not have available those cases to cite

[Ice]

The bank took your note and deposited it as an "asset"... that means the bank has a "liability". A liability isn't money. The bank hasn't got anything to loan.



If you attack the loan on the basis that the bank cannot lend its "credit" -- YOU LOSE. Game over.



Listen closely -- The issue is "Who funded the Loan"?? The bank or You? If You funded the Loan... then the bank didn't loan you anthing and is not entitled to anything... BUT AIN'T YOU ENTITLED TO ALL THE PREVIOUS PAYMENTS AND INTEREST PAID??



You better have some material facts... some proof of claim. If you're lucky they will bring witnesses that you can sweat on the stand.



Sadie,



If the judge ignores you then you are doing something wrong or you need to take a stronger action against the judge. If you have made oath for the record... then he should be hearing you... and if he's behaving like that then he needs to feel the blunt end of some "sanctions".



Ice

[sadie]

Ice



That is what I have been saying. I understand what has happened and that we have funded the loan.



Where is the proof that can be taken to court to support this?

[sadie]

Ice



I got shafted in court. I plan on filing a motion to vacate the judgment and will list all the things the judge did like ignoring everything I filed.



I demanded Common Law Docket and Jury trial- ignored

I filed a petition for redress, motion to dismiss, ex parte declaratory judgment of my sovreign status - all ignored



I included Correspondence with bank and collectors and attorney collectors, I included their deafults which have been publically recorded with the county clerk - all ignored



The atty filed complaint then at the last minute filed for summary judgment. That was the only thing the judge looked at and she gave it to them.



Any ideas how to handle this motion to vacate would be greatly appreciated.



P.S. Should the court be mailing me something regarding the judgment? This was July 12 and I have not received anything yet?