potential problem with VOD: definition of debt collector

joma44 · #1 06-23-2004, 07:00 PM

per the fdcpa an a credit card company is not considered a debt collect. 803(6)(2) A credit card issuer that collects its cardholder's account, even when the account is based upon purchases from participating merchants, because the issuer is collecting its own debts, not those "owed or due another."

Doesnt this mean that when filling out the respondents private international admin remedy demand you've made a mistake right of the bat if you try to identify the credit card company d.b.a debt collector, herinafter "debt collector"? Doesnt that make every thing after that pointless in the eyes of the law since we have misidentified the credit card compay per the fdcpa?

wirlwind · #2 06-23-2004, 07:22 PM

I have never considered the CCC the debt collector. They are the "alleged creditor". After 180 days they will turn the account over to a debt collector. That is when I would try to get VOD. When I first noted the CCC that the loan was fraudulent, I told them that I had just learned that they hadn't loaned me anything, and due to the fact that they hadn't ddisclosed that infoirmation there had not been full disclosure, so therefore the loan was fraudulent, and voided. I requested that they send me validation- in other words proof that there had been full disclosure- which they couldn't do, and of course they never did. After 6 months they turn it over to a collection agency- then you can start requesting certified verification of the loan, and use your remedy then.

I think some have used their remedy with the CCC though, and I'm not sure what kind of success that they are having with it. Initially, I felt like I had done fairly well with the system that I used, but that was four years ago and now some of those companies are rearing their ugly heads again in the form of debt-tornies. So my system may not have worked too well.

Oh well, it was an idea-but maybe not the bst.

Donna

Ice · #3 06-24-2004, 01:02 AM

joma44,

There are different strategies for different situations. An alleged original creditor, like a CCC, isn't subject to FDCPA... therefore, all reference to such would be omitted from the documents.

I would suggest that you read ALL THE POSTS within this forum and I guarantee you will find your answers. These things have been discussed here. (Remember this: just because a "thread" in any section of the forum carries a certain title -- it doesn't mean there isn't anything else discussed in that thread. One thought leads to another... and each thread in each section could contain many different issues in discussion.)

There are various ways of dealing with CCC's. As a matter of fact, CCC's are getting a lot of heat from these various methods, some of which are costing the CCC's FRN's.

I have a question: Are you attempting to deal with a CCC? Or are these questions an attempt to understand some of the processes which are discussed here? If you are really focused on the "validation of debt" strategy I would suggest that you purchase a copy of "Cracking the Code 3rd edition". All your questions regarding that process can be answered within the pages of said book.

Ice

Jerseee · #4 06-24-2004, 02:28 AM

Ditto Joma,

You can also view particular posts by particular people. Ice and myself are doggedly answering or asking questions on this issue.

Use the full capabilities of this site--its outstanding. Thanks SJ.

RICKY · #5 06-24-2004, 02:57 AM

WHY DOESN'T ONE EVER REQUEST OR DEMAND A VOD FROM A CCC? THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO VERIFY IT EITHER WOULD THEY?

RICKY

Jerseee · #6 06-24-2004, 03:01 AM

Ricky,

You've just answered your own question.

Ice · #7 06-24-2004, 08:10 PM

Ricky,

You can request verification from a CCC... but it is different than a request to a 3rd party collector.

Ice

RICKY · #8 06-25-2004, 12:18 AM

HOW ABOUT...

"CYNTHIA RAMOS, MANAGER

CITI CARDS

701 EAST 60th ST., NORTH

SIOUX FALLS, SD 57117-6077

Via U.S.P.S. Certified Mail #XXXX

RE: ACCOUNT # XXXXXXXXXXXX

DEAR MS. CYNTHIA RAMOS:

This letter is a request to provide me Certified Verification of alleged debt of alleged account # xxxxxxxxxxxx. The first was recieved by you or your agent through certified mail on May 25.

For clarification, (definitions from Black's, 7th Ed.):

Certify, vb. 1. To authenticate or verify in writing;

Verification, n. 1. A formal declaration made in the presence of an authorized officer, such as a notary public, by which one swears to the truth of the statements in the document.

Lack of response within 30 days is tacit admission on your part that you cannot verify that this alleged account and alleged debt exists, and that any and all references to this alleged account and alleged debt, to any credit reporting agencies will be deleted/withdrawn immediately.

Very truly yours,

RICKY

sadie · #9 06-25-2004, 01:09 AM

RICKY

They will not be able to verify the DEBT. However, they will get someone to sign a sworn (notarized) statement that the ACCOUNT exists. These are 2 different things. The account exists.

The question is who funded the account you or the bank. You funded the account by your signed application and signed credit card receipts (negotiable instruments)

Don't ask them to verify the account only to verify the debt.

As the original creditor they are not subject to FDCPA but they are subject to the FCBA and the FCRA the fair credit billing act and the fair credit reporting act.

See FCBA 1666 disputing billing and 1637 any inquiry to be treated as dispute. If they can't verify an amount you question they cannot collect it. 1666i

Also, if they can't verify a debt they cannot report it to the credit bureau (FCRA) they would have to remove it.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

RICKY · #10 06-25-2004, 01:49 AM

THANKS SADIE.

OKAY, NOW HELP ME OUT HERE. I THOUGHT I WAS DIRECTING THEM TO VERIFY "...alleged debt of alleged account # xxxxxxxxxxxx." NOT THE ACCOUNT ITSELF.

WAIT A MINUTE, I THINK I GOT WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. THE LAST PARAGRAPH IS WHERE I MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE LACK OF VERIFICATION "....this alleged account and alleged debt exists, and that any and all references to this alleged account and alleged debt, to any credit reporting agencies will be deleted/withdrawn immediately."

I SHOULD CHANGE THAT TO REFER TO ALLEGED DEBT ONLY SINCE I MADE REFERENCE TO THE ALLEGED ACCOUNT ABOVE.

IT WOULD READ SOMETHING LIKE THIS:

"....this alleged debt exists, and that any and all references to this alleged debt, to any credit reporting agencies will be deleted/withdrawn immediately."

THAT KEEPS IT TIED STRICTLY TO AN ALLEGED DEBT NOW. SO IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THINKING?

HELPFUL ...!

I WILL LOOK UP THE TWO FCBA DEALS TOMORROW MORNING.

THANKS AGAIN.

RICKY